149
Discussion - Potential piefed instance in the future?
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
Hello m@teys,
I've been waiting for this a long time (half a year), personally. After seeing the surge in piefed instances, i.e. blahaj, .ca, .zip, quokk.au, and .world creating their own instances, and clients guaranteeing future piefed support, we've been thinking about potentially opening an instance in the future. Not a guarantee, just an idea. This isn't a voting thread, just a discussion. Later on we'll actually vote on this.
Do note that this thread will not guarantee an instance; we are discussing a hypothetical. Suggestions? Ideas? Criticisms? make your voice heard.
Have a good week!
pie picture comes from here
governance type: sense check
I don't trust Piefed at all - they're far too eager to curate my experience, and they've reintroduced all of the reputation anti-features (plus more) that were part of what drove me away from Reddit and the absence of which is part of what I like about Lemmy and Mbin.
If you're contemplating a second instance, I don't much care, because I can simply not use it. If you're contemplating a move, I think it's an awful idea.
iirc Piefed started as a small personal project, so it was quite opinionated. Now that there's more users rimu has said he'll make it more neutral, and give more power to instance admins.
And yep, it's a second, separate instance
I'll believe it when I see it.
It's an odd thing - the Lemmy devs are notoriously opinionated and intolerant, and are constantly castigated for it, but I don't recall ever seeing even a single hint of their opinions or even their intolerance baked into the Lemmy software.
Piefed, meanwhile, is a direct reflection of the dev's biases right from the start, and with everything from the curated subscription lists to the karma and private voting, seems designed explicitly for the purpose of empowering bias.
Say what you will about Dessalines and Nutomic - at least they keep their biases to their own instance and out of the Lemmy software. And further, they appear to have gone to some lengths to make the software as neutral as possible - not only not reflecting any specific bias but limited in ways that make it difficult for it to even be used to impose bias.
And the same can NOT be said for Rimu and Piefed.
Perfectly put, .world is already turning into a new Reddit and Piefed is perfectly made to encourage turning into a new Reddit once all the .world'ers move there
That's exactly my concern. It's gotten too much exposure too quickly recently, so it doesn't feel organic, and between subscription gatekeeping, software level censorship snd the reputation anti-features, it just feels like it's been cynically designed specifically to undermine the benefits of the fediverse and turn it into another place where narratives can and will be shaped and controlled.
Lemmy jumped to 60k users during the Reddit API fiasco, this time it was the Lemm.ee shutdown that gave people an incentive to look for options to migrate their communities
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876780
After having discussed with a few people, Rimu agreed to drop the private voting. The system will switch to two votes button
a local one that will stay local
a federated one that will be sent to other instances
https://piefed.zip/post/148961?sort=new#post_replies
https://chat.piefed.social/#narrow/channel/5-admins/topic/Private.20voting/near/332
This provides better transparency than Lemmy, as users are now complaining about tool like lemvotes: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48233901/19876557
Wait for real? Damn that sucks that was by far the best killer feature.
Well, Rimu listened to the feedback, both on https://piefed.social/post/956572?sort=new#post_replies and Matrix
Seems like maybe that was premature considering a lot of people are still surprised by this. I'm on here pretty much daily and hadn't heard of it. Also it's incredibly shitty to stovepipe that conversation on matrix. It's the same shit reddit mods do with discord.
The discussion was open on both Matrix and Piefed, as shows the link above
Seeking stakeholder involvement is the product of publicity and outreach, not just technically something being in public. I do a lot of community organizing and local government stuff and "the meeting was public" doesn't cut it if you don't advertise it. In fact, people will rightfully get pissed off if you say that.
I'm not going to spend a bunch of time worrying about this either way, but a bunch of devs and admins talking about it on matrix isn't exactly community outreach. Rimu puts universal messages for other things, so it seems like that could have drawn some more widespread input.
And again I know this isn't the place to debate this, but a lot of users in that thread seem to want to preserve private voting. It's mostly admins and devs punting on the issue.
This was posted in the Piefed_meta community, where else was it supposed to be posted?
Also, the new version of voting allows private local vote, and public federated vote. Obfuscating the federated votes was trivial to overcome
Fwiw he repealed most of the karma system, and made it completely optional; so it's gotten better. But i see where you're going at, thanks for your input
I don't know much about Piefed. What anti-features are you talking about?
It tracks karma, automatically collapses replies and hides threads based on downvote thresholds and attaches icons to usernames to tell other users in advance that they have been downvoted in the past. And alongside that, votes are hidden. So a few determined users (or even one determined user and a few bots) can easily silence other users or even effectively censor content just by mass downvoting.
Just like Reddit, and notably NOT like the rest of the threadiverse which has done away with karma, doesn't auto-hide downvoted users or content snd makes votes public.
After having discussed with a few people, Rimu agreed to drop the private voting. The system will switch to two votes button
a local one that will stay local
a federated one that will be sent to other instances
https://piefed.zip/post/148961?sort=new#post_replies
https://chat.piefed.social/#narrow/channel/5-admins/topic/Private.20voting/near/332
This provides better transparency than Lemmy, as users are now complaining about tool like lemvotes: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48233901/19876557
It's crazy to see Rodneyck come up in this. I banned that account when it showed up to one of the communities I'm moderating 18 days ago and dropped five downvotes in quick succession. Something lemvotes helped me identify quickly.
Yeah, I don't like any of that. Thanks for the explanation.