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submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

I've used Django before and I disagree. 🤷

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Around which parts of Django? Because Django has generic class based views that do exactly the same thing, where all you do is set the model attribute. Then the generic view class you inherited from has the implementation. Especially if you use a ModelForm

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Here's what a typical Django enpoint might look like for handling a json payload with some user information and storing it in the db:

from django.db import models

class UserProfile(models.Model):
    username = models.CharField(max_length=100, unique=True, help_text="Unique username")
    email = models.EmailField(unique=True, help_text="User's email address")
    full_name = models.CharField(max_length=255, blank=True, null=True, help_text="User's full name")
    date_joined = models.DateTimeField(auto_now_add=True, help_text="Date when the user profile was created")
    is_active = models.BooleanField(default=True, help_text="Designates whether this user should be treated as active.")

    def __str__(self):
        return self.username

    class Meta:
        ordering = ['-date_joined']
        verbose_name = "User Profile"
        verbose_name_plural = "User Profiles"

then you'll probably need to add some serializers

from rest_framework import serializers
from .models import UserProfile

class UserProfileSerializer(serializers.ModelSerializer):
    class Meta:
        model = UserProfile
        fields = ['id', 'username', 'email', 'full_name', 'date_joined', 'is_active']
        read_only_fields = ['id', 'date_joined']

    def validate_username(self, value):
        if not value:
            raise serializers.ValidationError("Username cannot be empty.")
        if len(value) < 3:
            raise serializers.ValidationError("Username must be at least 3 characters long.")
        # Add any other custom username validation rules here
        return value

    def validate_email(self, value):
        if not value:
            raise serializers.ValidationError("Email cannot be empty.")
        # Django's EmailField already provides good validation,
        # but you can add more specific rules if needed.
        return value

then you'll have to add some views

from rest_framework.decorators import api_view
from rest_framework.response import Response
from rest_framework import status
from .models import UserProfile
from .serializers import UserProfileSerializer

@api_view(['POST'])
def create_user_profile(request):
    if request.method == 'POST':
        serializer = UserProfileSerializer(data=request.data)

        if serializer.is_valid():
            serializer.save()
            return Response(serializer.data, status=status.HTTP_201_CREATED)
        else:
            return Response(serializer.errors, status=status.HTTP_400_BAD_REQUEST)
    return Response({"error": "Method not allowed"}, status=status.HTTP_405_METHOD_NOT_ALLOWED)

next you have to define URL patterns

from django.urls import path
from .views import create_user_profile

urlpatterns = [
    path('users/create/', create_user_profile, name='create-user-profile'),
]

This is all just a bunch of boilerplate. And with LLMs, you can just give it a sample JSON payload you want and this stuff just happens.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Going through as I go:

  • validate_email does not need to exist, since model fields by default have blank=False meaning they must have a value. This should be picked up by ModelSerializer already, since it is using the model.
  • validate_username doesn't do anything that couldn't be accomplished by using MinLengthValidator - and in addition it should not exist in serializers - it belongs directly in the declaration of the field in models.
    • That way, you are validating this field regardless of it being used for the REST API or the web application

On the subject of your view code:

That whole code can be thrown out and replaced with:

class UserProfileViewSet(viewsets.ModelViewSet):
    queryset = UserProfile.objects.all()
    serializer_class = UserProfileSerializer
    permission_classes = [IsAccountAdminOrReadOnly]

So, honestly I don't know what to think of your example of "boilerplate" beyond the fact that you don't quite grasp Django and Django Rest Framework well enough to understand how to implement things properly, without repeating yourself. I also think some of your code like verbose_name and verbose_name_plural is not an example of "boilerplate". I would also argue that ordering is something that should be implemented via OrderingFilter so that the API client can pick different orderings as part of the GET request.

I think a full example could be reduced to something like:

from django.db import models

class UserProfile(models.Model):
    username = models.CharField(
        max_length=100, 
        unique=True, 
        help_text="Unique username", 
        validators=[MinLengthValidator(limit_value=3)]
    )
    email = models.EmailField(unique=True, help_text="User's email address")
    full_name = models.CharField(max_length=255, blank=True, null=True, help_text="User's full name")
    date_joined = models.DateTimeField(auto_now_add=True, help_text="Date when the user profile was created")
    is_active = models.BooleanField(default=True, help_text="Designates whether this user should be treated as active.")

    def __str__(self):
        return self.username
from rest_framework import serializers
from .models import UserProfile

class UserProfileSerializer(serializers.ModelSerializer):
    class Meta:
        model = UserProfile
        fields = ['id', 'username', 'email', 'full_name', 'date_joined', 'is_active']
        read_only_fields = ['id', 'date_joined']
from rest_framework import viewsets
from rest_framework.permissions import IsAccountAdminOrReadOnly
from .models import UserProfile
from .serializers import UserProfileSerializer

class UserProfileViewSet(viewsets.ModelViewSet):
    queryset = UserProfile.objects.all()
    serializer_class = UserProfileSerializer
    permission_classes = [IsAccountAdminOrReadOnly]
from rest_framework import routers

router = routers.SimpleRouter()
router.register(r'users', UserProfileViewSet)
urlpatterns = router.urls

So really the only "boilerplate" here is how many of the fields from UserProfile you want to expose via the REST API and how many are read only? That's not something an LLM can decide, that's a policy decision.

So really, I wonder what it is that you are expecting an LLM to do? Because this small example doesn't have much to it and it does a LOT just by leveraging DRF and leaving you to just define your business logic and objects. If you can't be bothered to even think about your models and what data you are storing, I don't know what to say to that, beyond the fact that you just don't want to code even the easiest things yourself?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

The point is that the LLM can produce 90% of the code here, and then you might need to tweak a couple of lines. Even with your changes, there's still very obviously a non trivial amount of boilerplate, and you just can't bring yourself to acknowledge this fact.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

, there’s still very obviously a non trivial amount of boilerplate,

Where?

Where is the boilerplate?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

That whole code is boilerplate that I originally generated using an LLM from the following query write a django endpoint for handling a json payload with user information and storing it in the db. After you making it concise, it's still over 40 lines of code.

[-] [email protected] -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Three thoughts.

Firstly: write a django endpoint for handling a json payload with user information and storing it in the db

And yet this LLM failed to consider just using the built in contrib.auth.User which already stores this information. What about extending the Auth user model?

Secondly:

This means that any of this supposed "boilerplate" (you are not even using the right term, more on that in a second) is just AI slop that doesn't even do a half decent job of what you have been arguing, around getting rid of "boilerplate" that is inconvenient. It is the LLM itself that is creating all this supposed boilerplate!.

Thirdly:

I don't understand what you think "boilerplate" is. Because 40 lines of code where you define a model, the fields that are serialized through the REST API, and the REST API implementation is not boilerplate. Boilerplate is defined as "sections of code that are repeated in multiple places with little to no variation." (Wikipedia). Where is the "repeated in multiple places" in this example? If we even took this example further and extended it to other models - where would the duplication be? The fact that you inherit from ModelViewSet? That you inherit from ModelSerializer? There is no boilerplate here! If anything the boilerplate is inside ModelSerializer and ModelViewSet, but that's object oriented design! You're inheriting from those classes so you don't have to do it yourself!.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

It's boilerplate because it's just lines of code that are spelling out a repetitive pattern that you end up having to mindlessly write over and over. The fact that you continue to refuse to acknowledge this blows my mind to be honest.

[-] [email protected] -2 points 1 week ago

It’s boilerplate because it’s just lines of code that are spelling out a repetitive pattern that you end up having to mindlessly write over and over.

And again, I ask you, where is that mindlessly writing over and over code? I have even gone through the trouble of trying to see the problem from your perspective, by looking at ModelViewSet and ModelSerializer where if you squint really hard you could maybe make a case that it is repetitive, but in code that is object oriented, you can't just say that "oh inheriting from some big class that does 98% of the actual implementation is boilerplate" - because literally all you are doing is inheriting from ModelViewSet and setting three whole fields that are specific to your model. Is three lines boilerplate, when they determine how the entire class behaves and if it works or doesn't work? I would argue not.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

I'm sorry, I should not assume that this sort of code does not require a significant cognitive effort to write from some people.

[-] [email protected] -3 points 1 week ago

Ah, here we are again. Now you passive aggressively say that I'm just stupid. So, now, who is doing the "low effort trolling" that you claim anyone who disagrees with you does?

Incredible.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

So which is it, is this code that's meaningful and interesting to write that requires cognitive effort from a human, or is it boilerplate?

[-] [email protected] -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's neither boilerplate, nor is it interesting code. So I'm unsure what your point is, or why it is being asked as an either-or type of question where I have to pick one. I would appreciate you explaining it further.

As an aside, I had to spend time taking something that you got out of an LLM to get it to the point where it's small and boring.

I suppose if you want to spend all your mental energy fighting with an LLM and telling it "no, that's not quite right, why did you make more work for yourself when there was a much easier way to do it", that is certainly one way to spend precious mental energy. It does seem to be a common pattern that many people have already shared, where they spend lots of time fixing what the LLM generated, and many report that it sucks all the enjoyment out of the creative process.

At least when I have to do the "no, that's not quite right" with a junior engineer, I am helping someone grow in their career and sharing what I have learned over 20+ years in my craft, and that I am giving back to the next generation, as repayment to the generation that taught me.

LLMs are dead labor. They destroy the future of young engineers and replace with a parody that makes similar mistakes, has to be corrected, just like a junior engineer, but there is no life in it. Just a simulation of one. It destroys joy.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

It ultimately doesn't matter whether this type of code falls into your definition of boilerplate. As you admit, it's not interesting code that anybody wants to write. It's not intellectually engaging, it's not enjoyable to regurgitate it time and again, and it needs to be written.

I suppose if you want to spend all your mental energy fighting with an LLM and telling it “no, that’s not quite right, why did you make more work for yourself when there was a much easier way to do it”, that is certainly one way to spend precious mental energy. It does seem to be a common pattern that many people have already shared, where they spend lots of time fixing what the LLM generated, and many report that it sucks all the enjoyment out of the creative process.

You didn't actually bother reading the article in the submission did you?

LLMs are dead labor. They destroy the future of young engineers and replace with a parody that makes similar mistakes, has to be corrected, just like a junior engineer, but there is no life in it. Just a simulation of one. It destroys joy.

That's certainly your opinion, and it's quite obvious that there is absolutely nothing I could say to change it.

this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2025
35 points (88.9% liked)

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