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Late Stage Capitalism
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It's not a stretch, it's outright false to call it communism or socialism, systems which necessitate the abolishment of capitalist mode of production (commodity production, private ownership, markets) and money. China, meanwhile, literally has billionaires, still produces things under capitalist mode of production and the only oddity it has compared to other Capitalist countries is partially nationalized economy (which Mussolini has also done, it's not socialism by itself).
It's just a social democracy.
Isn’t there only one political party in China? How is that democracy? Not being hostile, genuinely curious how that would work
You can have disagreements within a single party. Like how in the US they banned communist parties because it didn't align with the capitalist ideals that all American parties are required to align with.
The US has not banned communist parties from existing. There's even a few local elected communist mayors. The Red Scare for sure did it's job though, and declaring as a communist in virtually any US office is a surefire way to lose.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954
Brutal.
Which was ruled unconstitutional in 1973 by the federal district court of Arizona. Did you finish the article that you linked?
Blawis v. Bolin
It's like burning down a house and asking what's the problem after the fire has gone out. Repercussions last a long time. The cultural changes produced go on for generations.
Anyways, none of that matters cause this is America. We just did the unconstitutional thing at the State level instead.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/GV/htm/GV.557.htm
Please read and hit me with some more complaints. Maybe if I keep knocking them down you will eventually change your mind :)
Yes the cultural repercussions of the Red Scare are pervasive to this day. I mentioned that in my original reply.
The Texas State code you linked has a pretty funny definitions of "Communist":
It's not altogether uncommon in southern states to redefine words to make the name of the act sound extremely right wing. If this was written a decade later I guarantee it would say "Terrorist" instead. This particular act is also silly because it just redefines treason laws that already existed to make it seem like they were stopping communists. States did similar in this past election with "banning illegal immigrants from voting" on ballots. It's a political scare tactic and it clearly is working on you. Again, this law doesn't actually ban colloquial definition of "Communist" just some weird legal rewrite of what would most people would call a terrorist.
It also is kind of shitty to have someone come at you with "Brutal" and linking to an article that debunks their claim. Then continues to move the goalpost and condescendingly tells you that they're going to "knock down" anything you rebut with while also calling them "complaints" instead of facts. As such, I think I'm done with this conversation. Have a nice day!
Before I too let the conversation die I just want to point out how much you devalue "political scare tactics" like they have no effect and can be basically ignored by its targets with no repercussions. I want you to think on that for a while. Figure out yourself why that is a self evidently silly thing to say when discussing how they redefined communist to mean traitor and how that means they actually didn't ban communism.
I bet your a real big fan of the children's game "I'm not touching you"
If you insist on continuing to engage me then let's pivot to a different conversation.
Why are you so hostile towards me and why do you insist on ascribing things to me that I didn't say, or even imply? In fact, I've said the opposite of what you have claimed I said in your comment... The main reason I had for pointing out that communism is not banned is that it actively dissuades people from joining a communist party if people believe it's illegal. Which is the intent of the scare tactic. Which I believe is a bad outcome. Do you follow the logic here? Now can we please put that aside as I actually think we're effectively on the same page or at least on the same chapter.
I've tried to be moderately polite to you but you seem adamant to be a complete ghoul back to me. I just can't figure out why a simple rebuttal sent you flying off into a weird attack mode where you seem to ignore facts put back to you. What I can't stress enough though, is that mindset is not unique to you. It's extremely off putting to me personally, and I'd very much like to figure out where the heck this mindset is coming from.
I will say that I don't care for more insults. I really don't have the mental energy to deal with some random person attacking me for no real reason. So if you do reply please keep it cordial or I think I will completely disengage from further discussions with you.
I don't insist on continuing. I'm sticking to my word and leaving it there.
Wikipedia lists 9 parties in the NPC
And all of those parties are listed as being under the control of CCP. So it is a one party state.
Cool, thanks, TIL
You should also learn that those parties are subsidiaries of CCP, the governing party. They are not actual alternatives.
I think people have some degree of chouce at the more local levels, but you're right.
democracy is a far stretch though, isnt it? And capitalist is also not entirely true, when entire industry branches are nationalized, planned and not privatized
Socialism does not necessitate the abolishment of commodity production in totality to be considered Socialist, just that the society we are analyzing is working towards abolishing it in the future, which is further cemented by running an economy where the overwhelming majority of large firms and key industries are in the public sector and thus have leverage over the rest of the economy.
This is because no system is static. Whoever controls the Means of Production controls their development, and in which direction. As production improves, centralization increases, and state management becomes more feasible and more fundamentally necessary. This propels further socialization of the economy, as long as there is a dictatorship of the proletariat, the development of the productive forces drives the development to higher and more developed stages of Socialism, eventually giving way to the establishment of Communism.
Further, to compare China to fascist Mussolini is just absurd. Mussolini had minor nationalizations, in order to support the Capitalist state. In China, it's fundamentally the opposite. Engels went over the difference in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific:
Engels is specifically speaking about economies where the state is thoroughly bourgeois, and thus the character of the state ownership is to support Capitalism. This is not the case for China, however, which has gradually been seeing large gains for the working class and the Capitalists within China thoroughly submissive to the proletarian state. China has already had its revolution, it did not abandon it, neither did Cuba, Vietnam, etc. This is supported by what Engels says later:
Production is gradually transformed into public property as it develops and is more capable of being publicly owned and planned.
But you've already been explained this before, repeatedly. Your stance is that there can be no such thing as Socialism until commodity production, markets, and money all cease to exist, when in all likelihood vestigial elements of each may continue to exist even in the earliest stages of Communism, if we agree with Marx. Your stance is the "One Drop Rule," which eliminates the entirety of Dialectics and treats Socialism as a unique mode of production defined by purity, while Capitalism, Feudalism, and so forth were all defined by which element was the principle aspect, as no system has ever truly been "pure." This is plainly a wrong stance to take.