DancingBear comments on DNC Moves to Oust David Hogg After He Says Party Isn’t Standing Up to Trump

I don't think so. There's a reason the democratic party is polling worse than Trump. They're snakebit, even their own voters are disgusted with them. They've decided that their optimal strategy for winning national elections is pointing out (accurately) that the other guy is a Nazi and literally nothing else, and they're still losing, that's how fucking snakebit they are. There's nowhere left to go at this point, the plan seems to still be "ratchet right to peel off two more moderate republicans and ask people to be satisfied with just voting against the Nazis for the rest of their lives", which is a plan that has now failed 2/3 times.

Vote blue no matter who, think about that phrase for a second. That's basically saying "shut up, don't think, just do vote for any POS we put out and be happy about it". Doesn't seem like very good marketing to me. Do you think the Republicans have to tell their voters to hold their nose, suck it up, and vote no matter how much they hate the candidate? This is investing in loser energy, it's a shit strategy that's basically engineered from the ground up to lose.

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[–] btaf45@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

That’s basically saying “shut up, don’t think

Nope. We are basically saying "Think about how if Trump and the depraved corrupt Republicans win, Israel will implement a full scale food embargo on Gaza, and Traitorapist Trump will give gigantic tax cuts to billionaires, decree massive new tariff taxes on the middle class, turn the entire government into total shit, take health insurance away from 9.7 million Americans, and turn our entire economy into shit."

Do you think the Republicans have to tell their voters to hold their nose, suck it up, and vote no matter how much they hate the candidate?

They don't even need to do that because all Republicans already know that's how they win elections.

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[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, all the maga people really don't seem like they're holding their nose to me.

Nope. We are basically saying “Think about how if Trump and the depraved corrupt Republicans win, Israel will implement a full scale food embargo on Gaza, and Traitorapist Trump will give gigantic tax cuts to billionaires, decree massive new tariff taxes on the middle class, turn the entire government into total shit, take health insurance away from 9.7 million Americans, and turn our entire economy into shit.”

As opposed to the democrats, who will do fuck all until the Republicans win the next election and do all that shit anyway.

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee -5 points 1 year ago (11 children)

They suck, no doubt about it, but fascists suck way, way more. "Vote blue no matter who" is effectively what you have to do in a two-party system, but in reality not voting red is what's important. And yes, "Vote for the guys who are less bad" is a terrible message and contributes to the fascists winning. But voting is vital (even now, if only at a more local level), and not voting for fascists is extremely important.

Voting for whoever will cause the least harm to the country is the right thing to do. "I won't vote for the lesser evil!" does not accomplish this and actually goes in the opposite direction. But people are emotional and not practical beings overall, so the guys who are better at appealing to emotions win and we all suffer for it.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)

"no matter who" means "no accountability."

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Fine, then say "vote against red." It's what I'm actually doing, anyway. The system is fucked, but when you allow fascists in power you have even less agency to do anything about it. You ALSO have to hold Democrats in power accountable when they're in office via calls to your Representatives, protesting, primarying, etc. If you choose to do nothing but vote, you are indeed giving them no accountability.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

Fine, then say “vote against red.” It’s what I’m actually doing, anyway.

The important thing is that the centrists who run the party keep running the party forever.

The system is fucked, but when you allow fascists in power you have even less agency to do anything about it.

You're trying to convince someone who voted for harris to vote for her long after the election is over. Continuing to carry water for her is pointless.

calls to your Representatives

My representative is a republican who doesn't care what I think. My senators are both republicans who don't care what I think. My party is run by people who care only what republicans and netanyahu think.

protesting

Champions of the status quo don't have to protest, but they get to act like they got what they wanted by protesting instead of just enjoying things as they are. Perhaps you can afford the time off to protest, the time off to get arrested, and the medical bills from being beaten by police, or perhaps you have no need of protest as you have at least one party that represents you.

primarying

This thread is about what the party does whenever people try to primary their republican-adjacent ghouls. They're treating David Hogg like they would have treated dick cheney if they disagreed with him on anything.

If you choose to do nothing but vote, you are indeed giving them no accountability.

Other routes are not available to me, and I already vote like you want.

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I already vote like you want.

Then you're not the type of person I'm referring to, who doesn't vote because Democrats aren't progressive enough, thereby allowing fascists into power and contributing to things becoming even worse. Complaining that Democrats suck is fine, because they do. Making things worse by allowing the greater evil to get into power is not.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

Then you’re not the type of person I’m referring to, who doesn’t vote because Democrats aren’t progressive enough, thereby allowing fascists into power and contributing to things becoming even worse.

democrats decided Progressives weren't worth listening to. Too insignificant. Now they want to blame Progressives for their loss. You can't have it both ways. Progressives can't simultaneously be too insignificant to listen to and still be a credible scapegoat for the results of running on genocide and cheney.

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Democrats not representing so many of us leads to people becoming disillusioned and not voting. Having to choose a lesser evil instead of an actual good sucks. So Democrats are to blame for not representing their constituents, and voters are to blame for not voting for the least bad result out of practicality. The thing is, letting perfect be the enemy of less bad leads to more suffering. Just ask trans people how much they appreciate progressives who didn't vote for Harris.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

Democrats not representing so many of us leads to people becoming disillusioned and not voting. Having to choose a lesser evil instead of an actual good sucks. So Democrats are to blame for not representing their constituents, and voters are to blame for not voting for the least bad result out of practicality.

Thing is, the party did this for three elections running. People don't like being railroaded, particularly with the contempt and condescension that centrists can't help but express.

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

Yep, they've been the lesser evil for a long time now. The effort should be in working towards making them less evil, not giving up and letting the greater evil which has no chance of ever becoming less evil take over. A bit late now, of course.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

The effort should be in working towards making them less evil,

How many more decades of effort do you suppose it will take to slow them getting worse, let alone get them to the point where being less evil is something that they might consider?

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

I don't know, but I know that fascists being in power should be completely unacceptable.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, it should.

In either party.

If they lie and say they want to do something that benefits us mere noncorporations, oh that has to be accomplished over the course of forever while we make incremental change. Look, we'll run on a tiny improvement then abandon it immediately upon election.

But if they want to block a progressive from office or sell weapons for genocide, that can be done immediately.

The party takes advantage of good people having no choice. No one likes being taken advantage of. It was never gonna work forever, and democrats fucked up. They're never gonna stop taking advantage, though. Incremental progress is a disgusting filthy lie from the quisling party. They move quick when they want to. They move quick when there's Palestinian children to murder.

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