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Why exclude (edit: feminist) men?
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 04 May 2025
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Hi there, I also have nothing to do with makeup or following beauty standard or fashion ... however I have friends who do, and sometimes they like to talk about it. So ... I just zone out and let them get on with it, it's not hurting me.
Men dominate 99.9999% of online spaces, and even the most supportive of ally men will sometimes talk over women or assume their opinion is more important, so I think that maintaining this as a space just for women is a good thing.
Yup, agreed on all fronts :-)
what does it mean to talk over someone on lemmy? It's tree-based discussion, so I can't really visualize that being possible.
yes, this is a great example! And men IRL who talk over women can have a chilling effect that the man responding to everyone can create - there is a confrontational nature to the interaction that gives it a "talking over" feeling, it's basically just aggression and not reading the social situation that then leads to women not feeling like participating as much or being vulnerable about how they feel (esp. if they think they will be challenged or criticized for it).
Sometimes it's just nice to have a break from that confrontational style of interaction and to feel like people are going to be receptive and kind to you. (I would like to think plenty of men feel this way in male spaces, too, btw!)
You've very thoroughly explained exactly what I was thinking of! Thank you :-)
Fair enough. Anyway, I am not advocating that well-intentioned men be permitted into the community -- just ones that fit in.
That comes with the logistical challenges of ...
a) how do you find out which ones will fit in?
b) who defines what "fitting in" means?
c) would the men who are feminist and "fit in" not feel weirded out by being allowed into somewhere that's meant to be for women to talk amongst themselves? I mean, I would feel like I was invading something private if I were invited into a support group for men.
I presume that any woman who acts like a disrespectful man would be kicked, so that would be the same predicate for (a) and (b).
As for (c), how should I know. Maybe they would feel kinship for some reason, like they're in touch with their feminine side. Or perhaps they are facing an issue most commonly experienced by women. IDK, I'm not a man. Is this a support group?
Rule 2 is don't be a dick, so being disrespectful might get someone kicked regardless of their gender. Someone's gender is not just from being disrespectful, we often just ask the person.
Any place where we (assuming adult women) talk amongst ourselves is a support group sometimes
(Sorry for the late response.)
I actually don't agree that this is "talking over." For one thing, this is a tree-structure forum, so on any give root-leaf path, the man is only 50% of the messages (and this is more relevant IMO). For another, I don't even see what this man is doing wrong. He is politely responding to every response in turn. But ultimately, I just don't think this really counts as "talking over" -- I experience being "talked over" in real life a lot, and it feels like being unable to get a word in. It does not feel like "being able to say as much as I want to, and then get a direct reply," which is the experience all the women you have described are having.
I think I understand the problem you are pointing out. You're saying that the forum shifts to have too many comments by men. But that's not the same thing as being talked over.
You've misunderstood me entirely. This is not merely an argument of semantics. Being talked over is a really bad thing, and yeah, I obviously don't want that to be a thing that happens more. In contrast, increasing the proportion of men is essentially by definition the thing that I'm asking about in this thread -- why aren't men permitted. This means you're begging the question: "permitting men would be bad because it would increase the amount of posts by men." You're just asserting that's bad for some reason. I'm really not being pedantic here.
Anyway, if you're trying to educate me about basic etiquette, you obviously think I'm arguing in bad faith. So let's just call it off here.