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That's all folks, Plex is starting to charge for sharing (poptalk.scrubbles.tech)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world
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cross-posted from: https://poptalk.scrubbles.tech/post/2333639

I was just forwarded this someone in my household who watches our server. That's it folks. I've been a hold out for a long time, but this is honestly it.

They want me to pay to stream content that I bought from my hardware transcoded also on my hardware.

I'll say it. As of today, I say Plex is dead. Luckily I've been setting up Jellyfin, I guess it's time to make it production ready.

Edit: I have a Plex Pass. More comments saying “Just buy a plex pass” are seriously not getting it. I have a Plex Pass and my users are still getting this.

And for the thousandth person who wants to say the same things to me:

  • YES I know I'm unaffected as a Plex Pass owner.
  • My users were immediately angry at it, which made me angry. Our users don't understand what plex pass is, and they shouldn't have to, that's why I had it. The fact that they were pinged even though it should have kept working is horribly sloppy
  • Plex is still removing functionality. I don't care that "People should pay their fair share". If Plex wants to put every new feature behind a paywall, that's completely okay. They are removing functionality.
    • "But they have cloud costs". Remote streaming is negligible to them. It's a dynamic DNS service. Plex client logs in, asks where server is, plex cloud responds with the IP and port of where server is located. That's it.
    • "Good luck finding another remote streaming" - Again, Plex just opens up an IP and port. Jellyfin also just opens up an IP and port (Hold on jellyfin folks I know, security, that's a separate conversation). All "remote streaming" is is their dynamic dns. Literal pennies to them. Know what actually is costing them money? Hosting all of that ad-supported "free" content that they're probably losing money on.

In short, I don't care how you justify it. Plex is doing something shitty. They're removing functionality that has been free for years. I'm not responding to any more of your comments repeating the same arguments over and over.

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[–] 126 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (47 children)

Seems like it was only a matter of time.

20% more will jump to Jellyfin. The other 80% will entrench and talk even more about how great Plex is. I mean Jesus, $250 to watch pirated movies. lol wtf It's also fucking wild to me that people are defending a monetization model that is on self hosted hardware. Like, I gotta pay for my server and then a license to avoid buying DVDs. Fuck it, at this point just buy the fucking movie.

Ya'll are brain dead. Plex loves you tho.

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  • [–] [S] 23 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    Yup, read through this thread and it becomes clearer and clearer. and trust me, I've been a long time hold out, I've been through this many times - but this is the first time I've seen functionality removed from Plex to be put behind a paywall. And doing a price hike at the same time. Absolutely shitty. I've already migrated off.

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  • [+] -29 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    You have a plex pass though, so nothing changed for you - you just got all angry because you didn't read the email properly.

    Your users are going to be much worse off now than they were, and you will absolutely lose a bunch of them who don't want to (or can't) have to connect to a VPN every time they want to stream from your library.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Why would they need to connect to a VPN every time they connect to Jellyfin?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Jellyfin has some security issues that, depending on who you ask, are either critical vulnerabilities that make it completely unsafe to expose to the Internet or largely unconcerning for regular users.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (12 children)

    I'm not overly concerned about my instance running behind a reverse proxy. Perhaps I am just naive...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Honestly yeah. The Jellyfin Backend is basically unauthenticated for a large part, allowing anyone to map and stream your content as soon as they guessed the ids, which isn't that hard, since they are based on the paths on your device. So if your movie sits in /mnt/media/movies/the_bee_movie that is pretty esay to guess and calculate the id from, allowing anyone to stream that content from your server

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    if you reverse proxy (w/ proper headers etc.) into a VPN this isn't an issue

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    And apart from an undesirable bandwidth usage resulting from someone guessing their way to my file structure, how can this be used to compromise my server?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    They can stream content from your server or map out what you have on there by using a rainbow table. Depending on the country you live in they can and will use that combined with your IP to start litigating you

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    My question is, where are you posting the address to your jellyfin server that someone who finds it will go through the trouble of even doing this?

    Also how could they start litigating you based on the content you have? If I had illegal content on my server, I would be really dumb to expose it on the internet on a public jellyfin server. Otherwise my movies, tv, etc are my paid for content..

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You don't need to post it. Bots are scanning every ip, 24/7, looking for servers to infect, endpoints to abuse and data to extract.

    Go set up a ssh tarpit on your server and watch the flies drown in it. I will not expose anything on my server that has so many known vulnerabilities

    Your content might be legitimate, but the vast majority use Plex and Jellyfin as a media Server for pirated content and still want to share it with their friends or family. And just FYI, most blurays and DVDs also forbid this kind of sharing in their license

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I find it hard to believe that there are bots scanning for jellyfin exploits, since as far as I'm aware, the exploit is for viewing content without auth. 99% of bots are scanning for old instances of wordpress or other outdated software to exploit.

    If my content on Jellyfin was illegitimate, the person scanning for my files would have to prove that before they can sue, no? I don't think this makes sense for anyone to do.

    p.s. I won't argue that YOU should setup software that you dont want to, just that this particular reason not to may be a bit farfetched.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I find it hard to believe that there are bots scanning for jellyfin exploits

    You are very, very naive and uneducated on what bad actors do on the internet then. Basically any popular service that exposes a port to the internet WILL have bots scanning for that port specifically.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yes, you are right, but I think my point was missed.

    Theres not much reward for hackers to hack private jellyfin hosts (unless there is some big exploit that gives remote code execution that im unaware of), sure the bots will scan and try exploits on open ports, but are they specifically targetting jellyfin?

    There is always a risk, but in my opinion, the chances of being hacked through jellyfin are way too low to bother with over-bearing measures, like a required vpn connection.

    Running jellyfin in a secure manner (without root, only access to your content, etc) reduces the risk of much harm too.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    you will absolutely lose a bunch of them

    I always see this and I have to ask: why do you care?

    They likely aren't paid customers of yours, if they don't follow your rules and the software you like to use, then they are free to use any other method of consuming media.

    VPN

    Have to agree with the other comment that asks why do you need to use a vpn. Fax

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I always see this and I have to ask: why do you care?

    Because OP is scared of losing their users because of their incorrect thinking that Plex was requiring them all to buy a remote streaming pass, so clearly OPs goal is to not lose their users, right?

    OP asked, we're answering. That's kinda the whole point of this thing called Lemmy. We don't care per se, we're just telling OP our opinions and thoughts on their questions and proposed solutions.

    Have to agree with the other comment that asks why do you need to use a vpn. Fax

    If you don't use a VPN you're putting yourself at risk. There's no real way around it with Jellyfin, as others have said.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sorry, I wasn't clear. When I said "why do you care?", I didn't mean YOU specifically with OPs potential problem of losing users.

    I meant why do people in general, who self-host software for friends/family, care if their friends/family stop using the software.

    E.g. I have friends on Plex, but for whatever reason, I decide I want to move to Jellyfin. My friends stop streaming my media because they dont like jellyfin for whatever their own reasons may be. I personally wouldn't care about losing them as "users", because it's not like they are paying customers. I let them access my instance for free, if they aren't bothered enough to use it, then thats on them, not me to cater to their needs by keeping Plex around.

    Hope that cleared up my meaning. I wasn't attacking you for caring with your original response.

    p.s. you are at risk by hosting Plex too, just in different ways. Plex still requires your server is open to the internet, right? Even if only Plex's servers can access it, who's to say Plex themselves don't get hacked. Always a risk/reward type deal with hosting software, in my opinion, either are fine to expose.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    It’s also fucking wild to me that people are defending a monetization model that is on self hosted hardware.

    It's wild to me that people who claim to be tech savvy don't understand that Plex Server, the software, is what makes Plex what it is and as popular as it is. No other solution exists that is as easy as Plex and as secure as Plex. Jellyfin, Emby, Kodi, etc are nowhere near as simple to use and don't have the breadth of app support that Plex does. Plex is basically on every device anyone owns. They sign in and they can stream from everyones libraries. No VPNs needed, no other hoops.

    I paid like $100 for a lifetime Plex Pass like 10 years ago. The 2 dozen friends and family that share my server don't pay a cent and this changes nothing.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

    This place sucks at times as it becomes clear it’s just an echo chamber that we used to call the Donald for.

    My users don’t like the UI of Jellyfin as it isn’t as polished as Plex. I do this for my users and although it costs me money, it does save them a whole lot more money and means they’re taken out of some capitalist systems which should be the goal no?

    I also have the cost of a VPN too.

    Edit: The comment I replied to was on -6 upvotes at the time of posting.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I use jellyfin, and jellyfin is not safe to expose to the internet.

    They have a handful of vulnerability and security holes that have been open for like 5+ years now. And the old emby architecture is quite difficult to work with.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    A load of those so called vulnerabilities are way overblown and in most cases require you to be logged in anyway.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    So you’re saying there are some vulnerabilities which are not overblown and therefore should be a concern?

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    That is with any piece of software. their will always be some vulnerabilities that are very bad. so by your definition using any piece of software is a concern.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I agree with you, it's likely this vulnerability is only known because Jellyfin is open source.. how many are hiding in Plex's proprietary source code..

    Anyways when has anyone ever been pwnd by this "exploit", I have seriously never heard of anyone being "hacked" by one of them.

    Definitely overblown as far as I am aware... don't post your instance url all over the internet and you will likely be fine.

    Using Plex (is fine, do whatever u want) and giving them your data instead doesn't really help you (or at least sending your data through them).

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You don’t need to post your IP. Any server admin would tell you that if you have a server exposed to the internet then you’re going to get people / bots knocking and your doors (ports) to see what is open. They could then use something like meta spoilt to find vulnerabilities and gain access to your server.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Not to mention bots/people/companies watching torrent peers, looking up SSL certs for the IPs, then attacking anything with jelly in it.. Security through obscurity is not security

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Hm I don't remember posting the comment you are replying to, to the one I replied to.

    You are right, but I still argue that keeping Jellyfin up to date is fine, there's no serious bugs (afaik) that will compromise your whole server for instance, so these bots have nothing valuable to exploit here.

    When I say don't post your instance url I was talking about normal people finding it to try streaming from it without auth, I think I was replying to someone else and though this was the same thread.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Which shouldn't really be an issue since you should only host on 443, which tells bots basically nothing.

    Configure your firewall/proxy to only forward for the correct subdomain, and now the bots are back to 0, since knowing the port is useless, and any even mildly competent DNS provider will protect you from bots walking your zone.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    No other solution exists that is as easy as Plex and as secure as Plex.

    Entrenchment. This is a profoundly absurd statement.

    I paid like $100 for a lifetime Plex Pass like 10 years ago.

    You paid $100 to access software hosted on your own devices. That's wonderful you think that's a great idea. I'm sure the Plex devs love you and would kiss you right on the mouth.

    They sign in and they can stream from everyones libraries. No VPNs needed, no other hoops.

    Because you're vendor locked in.. lol.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I paid $100 to play Forza Horizon on my own device too - should that have been free?

    This is a profoundly absurd statement.

    That no other solution exists that is as easy and secure as Plex? That’s not just absurd, but profoundly absurd? What other solution is there that is?

    Your entire argument seems to be that software should be free if it’s on your own device, which is a profoundly absurd statement. The only paid software should be on hardware you don’t own?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I paid $100 to play Forza Horizon on my own device too - should that have been free?

    This is a complete false equivalence and I feel that you know that. The idea of a console is to expand it by buying new games. That's not unexpected.

    Your entire argument seems to be that software should be free

    I am a software developer. The argument isn't that software should be free. The argument is that this is an exceptionally poor business model and as a developer I'm disgusted that people are defending it. The VC which owns Plex and other VCs will use this "logic" that you have to move the goal posts further, and further, and further, and further until there's no such thing as free software anymore. And I think that's fucked up.

    At the end of the day you're paying twice to avoid buying IP. Just fucking buy the IP if you're going to be stupid. Movies are like $12. At $250 you're paying $2.10/mo in addition to your hosting costs.

    Just go buy 20 movies for the same price. It's so dumb.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    This is a complete false equivalence and I feel that you know that. The idea of a console is to expand it by buying new games. That’s not unexpected.

    It's not though. The idea of self hosting isn't to not have any software costs associated with it. Domain names aren't free. VPNs (that you use to aquire content) aren't free. Cloud backups aren't free. Would you prefer everything was free? Absolutely. Do you sometimes have to pay to get the best software for the job? Absolutely, and Plex is that software.

    I am a software developer.

    Same here! That makes your argument even crazier to me! Someone demanding that your software should be free and should never be changed to be paid even if it means the company goes under is bananas.

    The argument is that this is an exceptionally poor business model and as a developer I’m disgusted that people are defending it.

    The business model of having the people that use their main product that requires the most development and time and resources, Plex Server, pay either a cheap one off fee (that regularly goes on sale for half price) or a monthly subscription fee in order to use it, is "exceptionally poor"? How so? Is it just that it was free? This business model has been around for eternity. Get people in the door and hooked by offering it for free, then start charging for it. It's one of the actual best business models around, not "exceptionally poor" lol. You're looking at it from the "I want it to be free forever" point of view, not the "We need it to be a viable business with revenue to be able to sustain it" point of view.

    until there’s no such thing as free software anymore.

    That will never happen, because people will always be making free software to put out there for people to try and to use - and many of them will then transition to PAID because it's not sustainable otherwise. For software to thrive you often have to have full time developers working on it, and full time developers need to be paid.

    At the end of the day you’re paying twice to avoid buying IP. Just fucking buy the IP if you’re going to be stupid. Movies are like $12. At $250 you’re paying $2.10/mo in addition to your hosting costs.

    Just go buy 20 movies for the same price. It’s so dumb.

    I paid ~$100 ~10 years ago for Plex Pass. It paid for itself instantly as I was simply supporting the developers of the software. As a software developer I have no problem doing that. I wasn't forced to buy it, but I did.

    I'm not quite sure where you got this $250 figure from though? What is that, the monthly remote pass x 12? Also most people running a plex server get far more than 20 movies a year lol. Pretty sure I got 20 movies last night.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I dunno man, I don't care much, when Plex gets shitty enough I'll jump. But paying for the ongoing maintenance of software isn't some evil thing, even if I self host it.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You're not paying for software maintenance, you're paying a subscription service to a private company that has already decided to cut back on features that others also thought they were paying to maintain.

    If you want to actually pay for software maintenance, migrate to Jellyfin and pay them instead, rather than filtering your payments through middle managers and shareholders first.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Problem is jellyfin (apps and server) is shit

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    You didn't ask, but if you've had a bad experience with the apps, you could try one of the native apps.

    My friends on Apple devices think Swiftfin (https://github.com/jellyfin/Swiftfin) is much better than the normal jellyfin app.

    I haven't used this one/know anyone that has: Findroid (third party) (https://github.com/jarnedemeulemeester/findroid). Mostly because I haven't had any issues with the official jellyfin app for android, but it would probably give a cleaner experience, being native and all.

    For the server, I think it's fantastic. Never had any problems that weren't a few clicks to resolve. Pretty much use it and forget I'm the one maintaining it for the most part. I wonder what issues you encountered?

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