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this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2023
67 points (91.4% liked)
Death to NATO
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When you show up as a representative of the military to steal someone from their life and throw them into a meat grinder, they don't come with you because they're super stoked to die. They come with you because if they don't, the threat is implicit.
Sure, but you can't ignore the other half of the definition. It is the same with wrongful incarceration: checks some of the boxes but is not really kidnapping. Still the main point is also ignored regarding the uniqueness of the situation: It is not a special case by any means.
There is no other half of the definition, because there is no "and". It doesn't say to steal, carry off, and abduct by force and fraud. I don't really see any justification to say this isn't kidnapping, a guy walking up to you at random, unexpectedly, and then using the threat of physical or carceral force to abduct you to the front lines of a doomed war. I would say why split hairs here, but tbh I don't even understand what hair you're trying to split
The problem is rhetoric matters, and kidnapping implies abduction for the purpose of gaining claims, money or exercising terror. Lemmygrad is too stuffed with people using rhetoric that in turn allows them to react with hateful comments. That is why I want to split hairs. We all know what kidnapping means and what context it is usually used for, but you guys really want to use the term even though a better fit is just the plain truth that they are doing illegal and forceful recruiting. The reason you want to do this is to call Ukraine and the West special in this regard, which is not truthful, showing why rhetoric matters.
Your own definition: to steal, carry off, or abduct by force or fraud, especially for use as a hostage or to extract ransom
"Especially" does not mean "only", it just signifies what kidnapping is most often used for. Using the term is simply not incorrect nor does anybody here assume Ukraine is doing that for extortion. Reaction to these actions will be equally negative even if you used a more "correct" term of forceful recruiting. And Ukraine really is special in that regard, as it frequently quite physically drags off actively and violently resisting people, something the West will not do out of a sheer PR nightmare, instead opting for more subtle ways of persuasion.
Why you are so intent to die on this hill is beyond me.