this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2023
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Lemmy
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... Stop fearmongering.
The_Donald, isn't on lemmy. It's here: https://patriots.win/
After reddit booted them, they built their own reddit. I am pretty sure, they aren't interested in moving here, as that would ruin their echo-chamber.
Defederation is not the solution to your problem. sh.itjust.works is one of the larger lemmy instances, hosting lots of users, and lots of content.
The best solution for you, if you don't want to see https://sh.itjust.works/c/thedonald is to block the community. (Or the ONE USER who posts stuff in it)
You cannot defederate every instance, that hosts a community which you do not agree with or like.
(Also- unrelated- c/thedonald isn't going places.... after it breaks the fediverse record of negative downvotes, it will prob disappear soon......)
@xtremeownage Downvotes do nothing here to trigger deletion or admin action.
I know, but eventually, the user posting that content should figure out- it's not going anywhere...
Unless- there are users actively subscribing to that community.
That's not how fascists work.
@[email protected] Care to share your viewpoint?
They might have a main community on patriots.win, that doesn't mean they wont try to spread their ideology into other social media. I don't think TD on sh.it.just.works will be successfull, but I hoped for a wider agreement here, that racism should not be activly shared. I can block them, I can move to another instance, but what i really want is to minimize the range of this and future extreme-right communities in the lemmyverse.
I think we have the amazing new tool of a federated space to build really nice communities. Why dont we use it? The admins of sh.itjust.works have the choice. If they are in favour of nazis, we better not wait longer until they are even bigger and more difficult to defederate.
sounds to me like it's my problem to not like nazis
I don't think anyone wants racism to spread. I mean- look at the rules for my instance for example. There aren't many.
The only point I am trying to address here- defederating instances, is going to kill this platform MUCH faster then just letting that one, tiny echo-chamber exist.
Lets say, we block that community and ban it. The problem is solved, right?
Absolutely not!, now you are going to have a bunch of those followers attacking lemmy with a vengeance, trying to push the agenda at every single corner!
On the other side- I think it is in the best interests of the platform as a whole, to remain somewhat neutral.
Sure, we have have individual communities who prefer left-wing, or right-wing. We have have instances dedicated to being liberal or conservative.
But- at a platform level, immediately bashing out on communities because it is against another's belief- is going to cause a lot more problems than it solves. Think about it, do you honestly thing the_donald would have ever existed if the tension from reddit didn't cause them to form their own echo chamber?
(Also- before anyone comments on my political affiliation- I am libertarian. I do not give a rats ass who you vote for, and I openly support your choice and right to vote how you choose.)
Also- other then your dislike for the_donald- have, they broken any rules? Have, they said anything racist?
I am quite willing to bet, they will be banned on the spot for being racist.
Yes. Fox News wasn't right wing and fascist enough. So they created OAN. They are willing to make there own thing to make layers of deeper circles. Fox News is a pipeline to OAN but ever since OAN was banned from most services the alt right was quieted until other pipelines funneled them to the derangement. Each subsequent deeper circle gets less reach when you kill the pipelines.
It is the paradox of tolerance. You can be welcoming to everyone with the same ideologues of tolerance that is the social contract of an open and welcoming society. But as soon as a rat comes in trying to spread intolerance and hate you must sever them out and cut them out to stop the spread. If you don't want racists purge them as soon as possible and don't let them get footing in the community. If you don't want assholes kick them out. Making a secondary account after they change their mind and want to be apart of a welcoming society is easy. But purging people who have infiltrated the highest parts of society after deciding you had enough is impossible.
I think you're a Nazi and you should be banned from lemmy.ml. Only a Nazi would be in favour of banning free speech and political opponents. Now what? How is this supposed to end?
It ends with the recognition that truth is a thing that exists, facts are real, and while there is plenty of room for debate, some things fall outside of that. That the Holocaust happened is not something we get to have an Opinion™ on. And while we can absolutely have a conversation about where that line should be, most people recognize that there should be a line, and if the goal is to create a generally pleasant online space, the line should probably be higher than "literally criminal".
I often see this idea pushed that, because some topics are controversial and politics is messy, it is impossible to actually label anything as true and all opinions are thus equally valid and should be respected. This is, quite simply, wrong. "I think you're the real Nazi" is only a plausible response if you pretend that Nazi is a genetical word for "person I disagree with" rather than a real term with actual meaning that either does or does not describe something.
Their speech is not free, we all pay by having to put up with their bullshit. Even if its metaphorically sticking our fingers in our ears anytime they're nearby.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
And over here, we have the Drama-Bitch habitat. If you listen carefully, you can hear its over-exaggerated mating call. This species is interesting because it involved a unique vision mechanism: it can only see the world in extreme shades of white and black. Scientists currently think this is due to generations of inbreeding. When threatened with any kind of nuance, it resorts to the loud braying from which it gets its name; an overdramatic lament of how the world will turn into a literal hellscape if it doesn't get its way. It's incapable of understanding how absurd it sounds, and insists on being taken seriously, even though its wailings are too idiotic to even begin to engage with.
HEY! SIR! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T TAP ON THE GLASS! You get it started and it'll disappear into its pillow fort and scream literally all day long!
Moving on....
Defederation may be the only solution to the problem without changing the source code to allow for better administration tools.
Do note, posts from that community, will ONLY federate to your instance, if somebody is actively subscribed to it.
If nobody is subscribed to that community, then posts from that community WILL NOT flow to your instance.
So if I want to spread my shit, I just need to create an account on that instance and subscribe to the community? Seems feasible and if they ban that account I (or someone else from the shit community) can create a new account and just keep going.
That the (unfortunate) workaround.
I mean, you would also need to make sure the posts you were trying to spread, were not -5000 in votes too. (Otherwise, I don't think the algorithm is going to pick them up...)
Interesting.
You can and should defederate from things you don't want to see. That's the whole point of the entire project, that you can control your experience and choose to interact with whatever communities you wish. The Donald has a history of brigading and generally being a barbarian horde of racist dickheads, so defederating from them makes absolute sense. This isn't just "I don't like your opinion", it's absolutely "these people have a proven history of ruining every group they go near."
https://sh.itjust.works/ isn't just c/thedonald.
Reddit, wasn't just r/thedonald.
c/thedonald, is a SINGLE USER on an entire instance.
Defederating the entire instance, to block the content of a single user, ONLY HURTS the thousands of users on that server, who want to see content elsewhere, and ONLY HURTS the users elsewhere, who want to see content on THAT server.
Then perhaps that instance should consider if it really wants to host the hateful content everyone is objecting to.
Absolutely! Defederation is the prime weapon against these choad warriors.
Fuck fascists, and fuck any instance which would host them!
There's probably 11 fascists on kbin as well. Should your instance by defederated too?