this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15995282

Real unfortunate news for GrapheneOS users as Revolut has decided to ban the use of 'non-google' approved OSes. This is currently being posted about and updated by GrahpeneOS over at Bluesky for those who want to follow it more closely.

Edit: had to change the title, originally it said Uber too but I cannot find back to the source of ether that's true or not..

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[–] [email protected] 343 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This makes me want to use GrapheneOS more. If the dataminers don't want you to use it then it must be doing something right.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Too bad it only runs on Google's phones...

[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 week ago (4 children)

It's only officially supported on google phones because sadly those are the only ones that are not modified to fuck which makes installing and supporting other OS'es way too much work.

Giving google money once for a device is not a problem from a privacy or security standpoint.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's correct, but not the reason grapheneOS chooses only pixel phones. It's the level of hardware security features.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also unlockable and presumably has well working builds. It's not just graphene, but just about every Android project it there that's best supported on pixels. Other manufacturers have a crazy variety of locking schemes and required tools. Each one is a nightmare to support.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

For GrapheneOS, it's primarily that it's re-lockable. That's why other unlockable phones aren't supported.

The GrapheneOS install process sets new OS signing keys so you can lock the phone again and get full verified boot. However, most manufacturers haven't implemented this feature.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

Yes, that cuts the list down even more.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

What do you get, app/feature wise for verified boot vs. Play integrity app? Does it increase the amount of apps that work on it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No, Play Integrity intentionally checks if it's a Google-approved key. Android itself has an API to check verified boot and gives info on the signing key - most devs just want to know verified boot is working.

I feel Play Integrity has a short life ahead of if competition authorities realise how exactly it works. "Anti-competitive" is the first thing policy-minded folks think when I explain the API to them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Hope you're right, because it basically spells the end of customizing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

I would guess that it allows to detect tampering if you have to give your phone to the security officers and they do or don't do something with it without you present. I heard of such occurrences on the border, but this happens in other places and countries, too. Not sure if locked bootloader would help, though

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Second hand, no money for them

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

In the EU almost every phone has an unlockable bootloader, there just isn't any roms or custom recoveries for a lot of them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Wish they'd at least support Fairphone.

If Graphene reached out to them I bet Fairphone would even actively work with them to make it an official OS option.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

Fairphone would need to substantially modify their hardware to make that work

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Right? Have to pay google for the privilege

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (9 children)

You can always buy a second hand one

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Your options are:

Apple phone

Bloated android phone like Samsung etc.

Chinese android phone (xiami etc)

Google phone with Android

Google phone with graphene. This still looks like the best of those options.

Or no phone? I guess people are hardcore enough that will be the option.

Edit: I stand corrected.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Fairphone? Swiftphone? eOS? Linuxphone? PostmarketOS etc?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Is swiftphone its own thing or did you mean shiftphone? I kinda want the shiftphone 8 myself even if they only ship to neighboring countries of mine.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Ah sorry, you're right. I meant shiftphone.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

There's always package forwarding. I'm about to find out how bad an idea that is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

All of these are insecure as hell. Linux phones especially https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/linux-phones.html

Fairphone also really fucked up: They signed their own OS with the publicly available (!) AOSP test signing keys. These guys really don't know that they're doing, and I would trust their hardware or software whatsoever. And no, installing a custom ROM doesn't solve this. Considering how bad their security practices are, we genuinely have to assume that there are security issues with the device firmware as well.

/e/OS is based on the already insecure LineageOS, and it weakens the security further, so it's not a good option either.

None of the options you mentioned can be compared to GrapheneOS. It's currently the best option if you value your privacy and security. You don't have to give Google money either, since you can just buy a used device, which is also cheaper and more environmentally friendly. Google also makes repairing their devices pretty easy for consumers and even works with iFixit. Here's a Mastodon post I recently saw about that: https://social.linux.pizza/@midtsveen/113630773097519792

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I use cheap motorola phone with lineage OS, add that to your options

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I don't think LOS has any privacy/security improvements over the stock android?

(IIRC) it's even worse than stock because you can't lock the bootloader after installation.

Though if your phone isn't getting official updates, it's probably safer with LOS.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There's also the Lineage-based DivestOS that attempts to keep up with more security updates, and relocking the bootloader in phones that support it.

https://divestos.org/

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Yeah, I myself am using CalyxOS, because DivestOS doesn't support the Fairphone 5 unfortunately. CalyxOS also has relocking.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Calyx also comes with MicroG, right? So mitigates many problems with a bit more Google.

And Fairphone 4 here, partly for Divest (had it on Oneplus 6 before this and just used to it), partly because of a good deal for a barely used one.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

(IMHO) CalyxOS is a good balance between security and usability. Better than LineageOS, worse than GrapheneOS (and DivestOS).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Amen to that. Everyone has their own balance point, Calyx seems to hit that for many.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Forgot to say that yes, CalyxOS does have microG, though you don't need to log into Google to download apps from Aurora. Login is only required for apps from Google (like maps, gmail etc).

I also got the Fairphone 5 because of the used price! Mine was 300€ with a slightly burned in screen (it was used as a store display model), though I only notice it when on a completely white screen and looking for it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Physical access is game over anyway?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Not with GrapheneOS, since you can entirely disable the USB controller from the settings on a driver level, making it impossible to connect the phone to a forensic data extraction device. GrapheneOS also has a convenient auto-reboot feature, which (together with their patches to the Linux kernel and Fastboot recovery OS to include memory zeroing) erases the encryption keys from memory, putting the device in BFU state and requiring the PIN/password to unlock. This is additionally secured by the Titan M2 secure element, which makes use of the Weaver API and drastically throttles brute-force unlock attempts. https://grapheneos.org/faq#encryption

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

(IIRC) it’s even worse than stock because you can’t lock the bootloader after installation.

That's a problem with the phone manufacturer, not with Lineage.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Xiaomi has the biggest custom ROM scene out there btw despite them trying their hardest to stop bootloader unlocking. You really don't need to have a company supporting unlocking to make ROMs for them. If they outright block it then that's an issue.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

My friend just got a new Xiaomi phone. He tried unlocking it a few days ago and got "try again in 168 hours". That happened in Europe. It's an absolute mess nowadays, I remember when they started blocking you from unlocking the bootloader. First you had to wait 24 hours, then 3 days, now it's an entire week. You also need to make sure you're logged into your Mi Account on both phone and PC and do even more weird fuckery to ensure the process actually go through. Meanwhile, on GOOGLE Pixel devices you just type one command after you enable oem unlocking in settings and reboot into fastboot mode. Crazy.