this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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United States | News & Politics
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Democrats have no interest in democracy or anything that weakens their corporate power, like rcv/star/democratic voting methods.
I don't think that's true of all Democrats. Have there not been progressives pushing for alternative voting methods?
Almost entirely signal boosted as proof of a carrot that both will most likely never arrive, and most likely won't change anything even if it did arrive. There's a large difference between individuals pushing for something and them actually managing to get them passed at a scale that matters.
okay but it’s been passed in plenty of your states and that hasn’t been without democrat party support
you don’t just change the system overnight - change like that can take a lifetime, and it starts with signalling to move the overton window
Very few states, actually, and it passed in Alaska in a Republican state. Overall, it has weak momentum.
How do you signal to "move the overton window?" Prayer?
If only there was some kind of smaller election before the general election where we get to vote on who represents the Democratic party...
If only we could vote on leftist candidates in the primary for the DNC, as though it isn't a grand filter before anyone even gets to run...
Is there a sitting member of the Democratic party that you would consider a "leftist" or one that holds leftist values?
Depends on what you mean by "leftist values." The closest is probably Rashida Tlaib, but in general "The Squad" consists of Social Democrats, which I would consider Center-Right.
the overton window aka “the window of discourse” is literally about talking, and making things more acceptable by their existence in the public consciousness
the more people TALK about alternative voting mechanisms, the more likely it is for some change to occur… 1 person can’t just up and change the system overnight, but by “signalling” as you’ve dismissively called it, it makes it more likely that other people talk about it and that makes it more likely that it becomes policy
How does "signaling" translate to policy? The majority of Americans want abortion codified, legal weed, single payer healthcare, increased gun protection, and more. Why do you think these haven't passed?
these are separate issues; i never said signalling is the end game, but it has to start there and build
if you want IRV etc to be in the same category as abortion rights and cannabis (as in majority of people think “why the fuck isn’t this done yet?” rather than “huh? what?”) then it starts with simply convincing politicians to acknowledge their support for it - heck even acknowledging it as an issue
there is literally no way to get to policy through a grassroots without it first having a few people “signalling”
How do you start? How does it "build?" How does this translate into reality?
Reality doesn't run on 40k Ork magic logic, ideas don't become material reality if you believe hard enough.
are you literally questioning whether concrete policy comes from discussion? do you think 1 guy just snaps his fingers and makes it so?
politics doesn’t require 1 action… politics and swaying large groups of people requires those people to discuss and support to build over time
I am asking you how you translate broad discussion into enacted policy.
the way you do for literally anything else that becomes policy… discussion is an absolute requirement to forming policy. it is, without exception, the only way to start making any change
what comes after that is varied and complex
Yes. I am asking you about the "varied and complex" proceeses that turn talked about policy into policy.
that’s called politics mate, and since it’s varied and complex - obviously so - i refuse to engage because i no longer believe you’re acting in good faith
I am 100% acting in good faith. My point is that you can signal all you want, but that absolutely does not mean you can cross the finish line. Parties in power do not operate based on what the public wants, but what their donors want. The US doesn't have federally enshrined abortion rights, medicare for all, stricter gun laws, even though the majority want those, because party donors do not.
Organizing is how you get popular policy through. MLK Jr., the Black Panther Party, and Malcolm X got the Civil Rights movement to actually enact change, not just discussion, because the government was worried about armed revolt.