this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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the_dunk_tank

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Lemmy.world offically enshrines the siteadmins' right to futher remove "misinformation" at will after an admin overthrew its vegan comm. (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Previous Hexbear post on this issue by @[email protected]

https://hexbear.net/post/3259169

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132

To study health outcomes in cats fed vegan diets compared to those fed meat, we surveyed 1,418 cat guardians, asking about one cat living with them, for at least one year. Among 1,380 respondents involved in cat diet decision-making, health and nutrition was the factor considered most important. 1,369 respondents provided information relating to a single cat fed a meat-based (1,242–91%) or vegan (127–9%) diet for at least a year. We examined seven general indicators of illness. After controlling for age, sex, neutering status and primary location via regression models, the following risk reductions were associated with a vegan diet for average cats: increased veterinary visits– 7.3% reduction, medication use– 14.9% reduction, progression onto therapeutic diet– 54.7% reduction, reported veterinary assessment of being unwell– 3.6% reduction, reported veterinary assessment of more severe illness– 7.6% reduction, guardian opinion of more severe illness– 22.8% reduction. Additionally, the number of health disorders per unwell cat decreased by 15.5%. No reductions were statistically significant. We also examined the prevalence of 22 specific health disorders, using reported veterinary assessments. Forty two percent of cats fed meat, and 37% of those fed vegan diets suffered from at least one disorder. Of these 22 disorders, 15 were most common in cats fed meat, and seven in cats fed vegan diets. Only one difference was statistically significant. Considering these results overall, cats fed vegan diets tended to be healthier than cats fed meat-based diets. This trend was clear and consistent.

Not to be a stick in the mud here, but... what? How on earth does "cats fed vegan diets tended to be healthier than cats fed meat-based diets" follow after "considering these results overall"? You mean the results that weren't statistically significant? Those results? And that one statistically significant disease difference? It was for kidney problems, and the vegan cats had more problems than the non-vegan ones (table 6).

If there's a case for feeding cats a vegan diet, this ain't it.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm actually genuinely surprised that cats do that well on a vegan diet. It doesn't have to be healthier than meat to be an upgrade—if it's on par with meat and no animal dies to make it, it's a clear winner.

I didn't think we were there yet with cat food, but the study seems to suggest we are, even if they try to draw a stronger conclusion from their data than they can actually justify.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Look at their data. The vegan cats are roughly where meat eating cats are:

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah! It's actually really encouraging. I need to look into seeing if I can get my hands on any and if my cats will tolerate it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Aggressively vegan here: Please do, but be careful. Loop your vet in (it's gonna be painful as fuck, ask me how I know), when introducing any novel food (even if it was a new type of meat) be on the lookout for allergic responses and go slowly. Kitteh will need time to acclimatise.

Also research the food carefully, there are a lot of brands that are dubious and very poor regulation. I don't care for any cats so I can't help there sorry :(

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

READ THE STUDY!

Evidence concerning ingredient bioavailability and interactivity can indeed be lacking, but to our knowledge there is no published evidence that such concerns are any greater for non-animal-based ingredients, than for animal-based ingredients.

This is why feeding trials are considered the gold standard to ensure nutritional soundness of new formulations [15, 16]. The health status of cats maintained on different diets has been the subject of limited studies to date. In 2021 Dodd et al. [17] published a Canadian-based survey of 1,325 cat guardians, of whom 1,026 described their cat(s) diet. These included 187 (18%) vegan cats. More guardians of vegan cats reported their cat to be in very good health, and fewer were reported to have gastrointestinal and hepatic disorders. These cats were more often reported as having ideal body condition scores, than those fed a meat-based diet.

FFS don't skim the study. 3% of non vegan cats had kidney problems, 4% of vegan cats did.

So you're saying that vegan cats had roughly the same health as non vegan cats and we're not destroying our planet in industrial livestock murder. Sounds great!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

READ THE STUDY!

No need to shout. I did.

So you’re saying that vegan cats had roughly the same health as non vegan cats

No. That is not what the study is saying. The study is saying that "we took a look, and couldn't tell if there was a difference or not." Which is understandable, given the methodology. Internet-based questionnaires/surveys are easy to conduct, but tend to have big error bars. It's a common trade-off made when first beginning to investigate a hypothesis.

It's your typical "absence of evidence" versus "evidence of absence" conundrum. The authors note this in their comments on the limitations of their study and on avenues for further research:

As we’ve noted previously [30], large-scale cross-sectional or ideally, longitudinal studies of cats maintained on different diets, utilising objective data, such as results of veterinary clinical examinations and laboratory data, as well as veterinary medical histories, should yield results of greater reliability, if sufficient funding could be sourced.

and we’re not destroying our planet in industrial livestock murder. Sounds great!

Comrade, I'm not trying to argue that cats are "obligate carnivores," or that cats should or should not have vegan diets. I'm not arguing about whether or not cats can meet their nutritional needs from vegan diets. I am only stating that the particular study linked does not provide any usable evidence in support of a conclusion. That's literally what "no reductions were statistically significant" means: that the collected data is not sufficient to draw reliable conclusions.

Other studies may very well have more rigorous methodologies that convincingly demonstrate the nutritional completeness of vegan diets for cats. But not this study.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

FYI I have no patience for non-vegans concern trolling vegan issues. If you're actively harming sentient animals, your opinion is clouded by your own guilt. Apologies in advance if you happen to be vegan.

So you’re saying that vegan cats had roughly the same health as non vegan cats

No. That is not what the study is saying. The study is saying that "we took a look, and couldn't tell if there was a difference or not."

I don't know why you're so concerned about my taking my ending summary, out of context, when I wrote paragraphs summarising the lit review and minor differences in kidney issues with non vegan vs vegan cats.

couldn't tell if there was a difference or not

Science doesn't speak in absolutes expect in maths. If you read anything outside of the abstract, you'd see that there's a few other existing studies that support it, no studies claim the opposite, and further research should be done as in all medical research of this type.

Other studies may very well have more rigorous methodologies

No kidding. No if only the "cats must eat meat" side had this sorta need for rigorous methodology.