this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
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What incentive is there at all to work with UBI? Why would anyone try hard at anything if you're not rewarded?
There will always be people who seek to challenge themselves.
Others will want more money than is included with their UBI. What on earth would be wrong with people having a little more, as opposed to so many struggling, needing roommates, and so on? I imagine with an extra 1k-2k in their pocket monthly, a lot more people would buy or build housing, and a lot of service industries would boom with all the additional potentially disposable income.
Or how about people being able to retire, like actually retire, without stress. We could lower the retirement age, or people could retire independently from government assistance, leading to more available jobs for younger people as more roles transition away due to automation.
And frankly, I honestly don't see anything wrong with some portion of the populace just living on UBI and enjoying life if that's how they want to do things. Nothing wrong with people being happier, less stressed, and potentially mentally and/or physically healthier for it.
Also I think it's funny that we can bail out large companies on repeat, but bailing out people is a show stopper. It's backwards. The economy is supposed to serve us, not the other way around.
Good question. I'll admit that I like UBI, but I haven't done any serious reading into it. I have a break from work this month so maybe I'll try and find a book so I can answer this type of question better in the future. I don't think it's so much an issue for good jobs, but the real shit jobs might be an issue, but maybe not, and UBI in the beginning wouldn't just be for everyone it would be for selected groups.
A brief search gave this: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/universal-basic-income-ubi-map
Some gains:
I don't think anyone is thinking of the broader implications of this, they rather downvote opposing opinions. If UBI starts, where's the money come from? Higher taxes, in turn higher product cost, which just completes the cycle, making ubi not enough to live on, making an increase needed. They already tried this with minimum wage, it's still what $7? Full time work won't even pay for your apartment, let alone 80 hour weeks
couple options include taking profits gained through AI/automation that have historically gone to shareholders. The other is VAT tax targeting the wealthy. We don't need UBI for everyone all at once, so funding would be incremental. I don't think it's the largest challenge to UBI, the main one being people who oppose it for any number of reasons.
I don't think either of us should try to assume an advanced knowledge of economics. We don't know what will happen to the cycle, but the idea of UBI wouldn't be proposed at all unless that were also a consideration already answered.
Big surprise, people do things despite not being paid for them!
Also a UBI should be just enough to live (afford food and shelter) wherever you live. Then you can work for more.
UBI is about freeing people from having to work multiple dead end jobs just to survive and enables them to have an actual pursuit of happiness. Not everyone will want to work harder, but the option opens to those who do.
Currently if you’re struggling just to pay for food and shelter, it’s incredibly hard to spend time developing skills needed to make more.
To answer you seriously (and these are out of date figures from memory) that in Australia all it would take to give everyone UBI is to tax every dollar outside of that people make starting at 30%. (Currently its 19% after your first 18k. goes to 32% over 45k and 37% over 120k and 45% after that)
The positives are that
People can retire younger, meaning upward job mobility is greatly improved.
The cost of means testing, managing welfare and aged pensions and combating fraud of those systems effectively vanishes.
Students could afford to study full time and work only part time or not at all AND pay their rent meaning a better educated population.
It effectively combats the minimum wage being too low. Its ok for part time baristas to make the minimum when the govt is making sure that people are already at "survival".
It indirectly funds the arts. Lets be real, how many great musicians had to stop chasing their dreams because it was "practice or go to work and eat.
For example. Some guy making 100k a year and paying about $25k in tax currently. Under the 30% arrangement would pay 30k in tax, but the ubi would pay about $20k a year. So still $15k in front. I'm no accountant but I think for you to be worse off you have to be on about $200k a year or more.