β² 1603 βΌ Opinions [Extra Fabulous Comics] (lemmy.world) submitted 2 years ago by The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world 136 comments fedilink hide all child comments https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/
[+] umbrella@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -7 points 2 years ago (2 children) My faith in Christianity was actually fading, and I started to research it. Doing so actually strengthened it and led me to being baptised lmao. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Its funny, I did the same thing and it actually destroyed any vestiges of faith I still had. The more I know about Christianity/Catholicism, the less I believed. Too much self contradictory bullshit, and too much preaching without enough action to go with the words. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) Christianity/Catholicism? Don't you mean just Roman Catholicism? As you can have Christianity without the Roman Catholicism. When I was researching faith and religion, I was able to rule out Roman Catholicism. I know what you mean about self contradictory BS (things such as purgatory being unbiblical, perpetual virginity of mary despite Matthew's gospel strongly implying that she consummated her marriage and the Bible mentioning Jesus' brothers several times, etc). As with preaching and action - I care more about the faith and my own spirituality than letting myself be defined by what others are doing. Of course, I'll always call people out when they are being heretical and/or abusive or misusing the faith (I remember there was an Indian guy who claimed to have converted to Christianity but I later realised he did it because he hated Muslims so much, and he ended up actually dropping his identity as a "Christian" because I kept telling him that Christians cannot call for a mass extermination of a religious group. Pretty funny but also a sad story), but I wouldn't stop being a Christian just because other Christians are being hypocrites. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Christianity/Catholicism? Donβt you mean just Roman Catholicism? No, christianity as a whole. The sourcebook is a self contradictory slapfight perpetuated by whomever translated the particular copy you're looking at, and is a convenient shield for those who choose not to follow the faith, but want a way to hurt/control others while pretending they do. There are a lot of good lessons to take out of the sourcebook, but there's more chaff than wheat to be had, and I just have no time for it anymore. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? No one is saying you should let them take that from you. But you don't have to be a christian to be a good person and to use the positives you gained from your experience. I took the good parts of the religion and moved on with my life. I'm still a good person and have the beliefs my christian family instilled in me, I just don't care to surround myself with religious types for reasons that most religious people feel offended by. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -16 points 2 years ago (4 children) The Bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Also, nobody can be a good person, not even Christians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent [β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? Why did God have to send his son to die for you? Why can't he just decide not to punish people without requiring a blood offering? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because then there's no justice for sin. God is perfectly just, and forgiving people for no reason isn't justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm no longer religious, but I find that religion has some sense in its own right. Provided it's not shoved down people's throats. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -10 points 2 years ago (3 children) Depends what you mean as "shoved down people's throats" do you mean normal evangelism via freedom of speech or Christian nationalism, like the Louisiana 10 commandments cringe permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're getting downvoted because so many Americans experience normal evangelism as people literally thumping a Bible while threatening them with hell and damnation. And evangelists (the religious sect, not the act) are largely responsible for the repeal of women's rights in the US. They're currently trying to make women unable to travel without government permission. So it's kind of a loaded word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The religious sect are evangelicals, not evangelists. A sincere Christian evangelist doesn't want you to go to Hell - The thing is, we completely believe in it and we are warning you about what we believe is inevitable. The most hateful thing we could do is not warn you about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) To be honest, even proselytisation can come off as being condescending. A Christian is basically telling to the person "my religion is better than yours. You are a sinful person and you will be cast into the fires of hell. It will not happen to you if you accept Jesus as lord and saviour!" And it is not like evangelisation is done out of pure power of persuasive words and good teachings from the bible alone. Aside from threat of eternal damnation, many missionnaries tend to incentivise people by offering food or help, in exchange for the locals to listen to proselytisation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) Look at it from our perspective, though. We fully believe in Hell, and that everyone is sinful and deserving of it. And nobody can escape it without living a life of genuine repentance to God, trusting alone in the sacrifice that He made for us. The most hateful thing we can do is not warn you about it, but just watch you waltz your own way down to your destruction. Now, yes, there are many hypocrites who aren't really evangelising at all and only do it to feed their ego, and God will deal with them justly, but for me and many others, we don't want you to go to Hell. We want you, when your body gives up, to be in Heaven, where there is no more suffering or pain. When I tell people about Jesus and the Gospel - it's not to further an agenda. It's out of love and genuine care. And if it means spending resources on feeding people so they'd listen, then it's worth it. Just like how some places gave out rewards to people who got a COVID-19 vaccine, we wanted to reward someone for doing something that's for their own good. If we were absolutely convinced that we had the method to eternal life - and that method is very much free - wouldn't it be selfish for us to keep it to ourselves and not tell others? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I can think of an example of "shoved down people's throats" being born into a Jehovah's witnesses family. 18 years of forced indoctrination. No choice whatsoever. Very damaging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Oh gosh, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an abusive cult. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. It's annoying trying to reach their members as well as they are taught to immediately stop talking to anyone questioning the Watchtower. I was talking to a pioneer once, revealed that I was Christian and then a guy who seemed to be a minder gave me a "tract" and told me that it was time for him to shut up shop for the night. It was very very strange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -7 points 2 years ago (2 children) My faith in Christianity was actually fading, and I started to research it. Doing so actually strengthened it and led me to being baptised lmao. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Its funny, I did the same thing and it actually destroyed any vestiges of faith I still had. The more I know about Christianity/Catholicism, the less I believed. Too much self contradictory bullshit, and too much preaching without enough action to go with the words. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) Christianity/Catholicism? Don't you mean just Roman Catholicism? As you can have Christianity without the Roman Catholicism. When I was researching faith and religion, I was able to rule out Roman Catholicism. I know what you mean about self contradictory BS (things such as purgatory being unbiblical, perpetual virginity of mary despite Matthew's gospel strongly implying that she consummated her marriage and the Bible mentioning Jesus' brothers several times, etc). As with preaching and action - I care more about the faith and my own spirituality than letting myself be defined by what others are doing. Of course, I'll always call people out when they are being heretical and/or abusive or misusing the faith (I remember there was an Indian guy who claimed to have converted to Christianity but I later realised he did it because he hated Muslims so much, and he ended up actually dropping his identity as a "Christian" because I kept telling him that Christians cannot call for a mass extermination of a religious group. Pretty funny but also a sad story), but I wouldn't stop being a Christian just because other Christians are being hypocrites. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Christianity/Catholicism? Donβt you mean just Roman Catholicism? No, christianity as a whole. The sourcebook is a self contradictory slapfight perpetuated by whomever translated the particular copy you're looking at, and is a convenient shield for those who choose not to follow the faith, but want a way to hurt/control others while pretending they do. There are a lot of good lessons to take out of the sourcebook, but there's more chaff than wheat to be had, and I just have no time for it anymore. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? No one is saying you should let them take that from you. But you don't have to be a christian to be a good person and to use the positives you gained from your experience. I took the good parts of the religion and moved on with my life. I'm still a good person and have the beliefs my christian family instilled in me, I just don't care to surround myself with religious types for reasons that most religious people feel offended by. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -16 points 2 years ago (4 children) The Bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Also, nobody can be a good person, not even Christians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent [β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? Why did God have to send his son to die for you? Why can't he just decide not to punish people without requiring a blood offering? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because then there's no justice for sin. God is perfectly just, and forgiving people for no reason isn't justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm no longer religious, but I find that religion has some sense in its own right. Provided it's not shoved down people's throats. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -10 points 2 years ago (3 children) Depends what you mean as "shoved down people's throats" do you mean normal evangelism via freedom of speech or Christian nationalism, like the Louisiana 10 commandments cringe permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're getting downvoted because so many Americans experience normal evangelism as people literally thumping a Bible while threatening them with hell and damnation. And evangelists (the religious sect, not the act) are largely responsible for the repeal of women's rights in the US. They're currently trying to make women unable to travel without government permission. So it's kind of a loaded word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The religious sect are evangelicals, not evangelists. A sincere Christian evangelist doesn't want you to go to Hell - The thing is, we completely believe in it and we are warning you about what we believe is inevitable. The most hateful thing we could do is not warn you about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) To be honest, even proselytisation can come off as being condescending. A Christian is basically telling to the person "my religion is better than yours. You are a sinful person and you will be cast into the fires of hell. It will not happen to you if you accept Jesus as lord and saviour!" And it is not like evangelisation is done out of pure power of persuasive words and good teachings from the bible alone. Aside from threat of eternal damnation, many missionnaries tend to incentivise people by offering food or help, in exchange for the locals to listen to proselytisation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) Look at it from our perspective, though. We fully believe in Hell, and that everyone is sinful and deserving of it. And nobody can escape it without living a life of genuine repentance to God, trusting alone in the sacrifice that He made for us. The most hateful thing we can do is not warn you about it, but just watch you waltz your own way down to your destruction. Now, yes, there are many hypocrites who aren't really evangelising at all and only do it to feed their ego, and God will deal with them justly, but for me and many others, we don't want you to go to Hell. We want you, when your body gives up, to be in Heaven, where there is no more suffering or pain. When I tell people about Jesus and the Gospel - it's not to further an agenda. It's out of love and genuine care. And if it means spending resources on feeding people so they'd listen, then it's worth it. Just like how some places gave out rewards to people who got a COVID-19 vaccine, we wanted to reward someone for doing something that's for their own good. If we were absolutely convinced that we had the method to eternal life - and that method is very much free - wouldn't it be selfish for us to keep it to ourselves and not tell others? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I can think of an example of "shoved down people's throats" being born into a Jehovah's witnesses family. 18 years of forced indoctrination. No choice whatsoever. Very damaging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Oh gosh, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an abusive cult. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. It's annoying trying to reach their members as well as they are taught to immediately stop talking to anyone questioning the Watchtower. I was talking to a pioneer once, revealed that I was Christian and then a guy who seemed to be a minder gave me a "tract" and told me that it was time for him to shut up shop for the night. It was very very strange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Its funny, I did the same thing and it actually destroyed any vestiges of faith I still had. The more I know about Christianity/Catholicism, the less I believed. Too much self contradictory bullshit, and too much preaching without enough action to go with the words. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) Christianity/Catholicism? Don't you mean just Roman Catholicism? As you can have Christianity without the Roman Catholicism. When I was researching faith and religion, I was able to rule out Roman Catholicism. I know what you mean about self contradictory BS (things such as purgatory being unbiblical, perpetual virginity of mary despite Matthew's gospel strongly implying that she consummated her marriage and the Bible mentioning Jesus' brothers several times, etc). As with preaching and action - I care more about the faith and my own spirituality than letting myself be defined by what others are doing. Of course, I'll always call people out when they are being heretical and/or abusive or misusing the faith (I remember there was an Indian guy who claimed to have converted to Christianity but I later realised he did it because he hated Muslims so much, and he ended up actually dropping his identity as a "Christian" because I kept telling him that Christians cannot call for a mass extermination of a religious group. Pretty funny but also a sad story), but I wouldn't stop being a Christian just because other Christians are being hypocrites. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Christianity/Catholicism? Donβt you mean just Roman Catholicism? No, christianity as a whole. The sourcebook is a self contradictory slapfight perpetuated by whomever translated the particular copy you're looking at, and is a convenient shield for those who choose not to follow the faith, but want a way to hurt/control others while pretending they do. There are a lot of good lessons to take out of the sourcebook, but there's more chaff than wheat to be had, and I just have no time for it anymore. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? No one is saying you should let them take that from you. But you don't have to be a christian to be a good person and to use the positives you gained from your experience. I took the good parts of the religion and moved on with my life. I'm still a good person and have the beliefs my christian family instilled in me, I just don't care to surround myself with religious types for reasons that most religious people feel offended by. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -16 points 2 years ago (4 children) The Bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Also, nobody can be a good person, not even Christians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent [β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? Why did God have to send his son to die for you? Why can't he just decide not to punish people without requiring a blood offering? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because then there's no justice for sin. God is perfectly just, and forgiving people for no reason isn't justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) Christianity/Catholicism? Don't you mean just Roman Catholicism? As you can have Christianity without the Roman Catholicism. When I was researching faith and religion, I was able to rule out Roman Catholicism. I know what you mean about self contradictory BS (things such as purgatory being unbiblical, perpetual virginity of mary despite Matthew's gospel strongly implying that she consummated her marriage and the Bible mentioning Jesus' brothers several times, etc). As with preaching and action - I care more about the faith and my own spirituality than letting myself be defined by what others are doing. Of course, I'll always call people out when they are being heretical and/or abusive or misusing the faith (I remember there was an Indian guy who claimed to have converted to Christianity but I later realised he did it because he hated Muslims so much, and he ended up actually dropping his identity as a "Christian" because I kept telling him that Christians cannot call for a mass extermination of a religious group. Pretty funny but also a sad story), but I wouldn't stop being a Christian just because other Christians are being hypocrites. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Christianity/Catholicism? Donβt you mean just Roman Catholicism? No, christianity as a whole. The sourcebook is a self contradictory slapfight perpetuated by whomever translated the particular copy you're looking at, and is a convenient shield for those who choose not to follow the faith, but want a way to hurt/control others while pretending they do. There are a lot of good lessons to take out of the sourcebook, but there's more chaff than wheat to be had, and I just have no time for it anymore. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? No one is saying you should let them take that from you. But you don't have to be a christian to be a good person and to use the positives you gained from your experience. I took the good parts of the religion and moved on with my life. I'm still a good person and have the beliefs my christian family instilled in me, I just don't care to surround myself with religious types for reasons that most religious people feel offended by. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -16 points 2 years ago (4 children) The Bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Also, nobody can be a good person, not even Christians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent [β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? Why did God have to send his son to die for you? Why can't he just decide not to punish people without requiring a blood offering? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because then there's no justice for sin. God is perfectly just, and forgiving people for no reason isn't justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Christianity/Catholicism? Donβt you mean just Roman Catholicism? No, christianity as a whole. The sourcebook is a self contradictory slapfight perpetuated by whomever translated the particular copy you're looking at, and is a convenient shield for those who choose not to follow the faith, but want a way to hurt/control others while pretending they do. There are a lot of good lessons to take out of the sourcebook, but there's more chaff than wheat to be had, and I just have no time for it anymore. Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? No one is saying you should let them take that from you. But you don't have to be a christian to be a good person and to use the positives you gained from your experience. I took the good parts of the religion and moved on with my life. I'm still a good person and have the beliefs my christian family instilled in me, I just don't care to surround myself with religious types for reasons that most religious people feel offended by. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -16 points 2 years ago (4 children) The Bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Also, nobody can be a good person, not even Christians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent [β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -16 points 2 years ago (4 children) The Bible doesn't contain any contradictions. Also, nobody can be a good person, not even Christians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent [β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 2 years ago The Bible doesnβt contain any contradictions This the funniest thing I've read all day. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] WereCat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children) So you're saying we will all go to hell? To hell with Christianity then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Yes that's what they are saying unless you bow down and bend a knee specifically to Jesus which is odd cause he's not even good but the son of God but that also makes him God but also all the parts written about him that everyone quotes were written by a business man who never met Jesus but pretended to after being thrown out of the town and realizing he would die in the desert. But specifically name Jesus as your ride or die or fucking die. Because, you aren't part of the gang enough to not question things and that kind of questioning weakens the faith every time. The faith in Christianity in a nutshell. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Once again, someone thinks if they don't believe in something, it won't be true. I'm not a Christian because I simply like what it teaches- I'm a Christian because it's true. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent
[β] WereCat@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago What does your reply has to do anything with my reply to the previous guys reply? permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Tell me you haven't actually read the bible without telling me you've never actually read the bible. Also, that's a bullshit copout by bad people who have no intention of improving themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I have read the Bible. I don't see all of these "contradictions" people talk about permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taylor Swift is not in the Bible. Not her, nor a picture, nor a prophecy of her. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, that's exactly the message you should have taken. No fucking wonder you don't see the contradictions of the Bible.... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You've yet to name one yourself lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How about a whole site dedicated to the topic? Your lack of curiosity doesn't mean squat about the contradictory nature of the Bible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Anyone can make a list claiming something is contradictory. Although from the header of that site you can clearly see that it's an issue of the heart primarily, which motivates unreasonable scrutiny like this. The first "contradiction" I clicked on was claiming the Bible saying that Aaron dying at Mount Hor and saying he died at Mosera, which was the camp at Mount Hor, is apparently a contradiction. That's like saying a description of someone who died in the USA under the presidency of Benjamin Harrison and another description saying that the same person died during the Victorian era is contradictory. Also worth acknowledging the admission in the footer "Many of the contradictions above stem from a literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible. Some verses may be mistranslations, allegories, exaggerations, etc. and can be interpreted in the context of the society in which they were written, rewritten, or otherwise modified over time, while others are very clear contradictions." Pick one from that list for me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Here's one: direct numerical difference from one verse to another. This book is not a reliable account of (alleged) events in the near east. https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/when-did-ahaziah-begin-to-reign-sab.html permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago That's simply just a different counting system being used across different cultures. Some systems would count the first year of reign as being year 0, others year 1. South Korea recently used a different system to the rest of the world. So under this system if someone wrote that a child was two years old and the another wrote that they were three, but the second was a South Korean, both would still be correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Not even Jesus? Lol NO contradictions. Sure. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Why should I let them take what Jesus did for me away from me? Why did God have to send his son to die for you? Why can't he just decide not to punish people without requiring a blood offering? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because then there's no justice for sin. God is perfectly just, and forgiving people for no reason isn't justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because then there's no justice for sin. God is perfectly just, and forgiving people for no reason isn't justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) But God is the one doing the justice, right? Why does he have to have a blood offering? Sending his son to die when he could merely decide to forgive without a blood offering feels weird. The one who would punish us if it didn't happen would be god himself. He could simply choose not to carry out that punishment rather than going through the act of having his son literally die an excruciating death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) If he forgave everyone for no reason, then there's no justice and sin goes unpunished. If someone damages your car and you forgave them for it, would that mean there's no payment? No, you'd pay for it yourself. So God paid for the price of our sin Himself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If someone damages my car and I want to forgive them I don't have to spill blood to do it. I could simply choose to not call the cops or whatever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You'd still have to pay for the damage though, which is the cost of your car being damaged. Meanwhile, the cost of our sin is death. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I don't see how you can believe God is omnipotent while also being utterly incapable of choosing to not punish people without killing his son. All the metaphors you make break down because it's all god in control. God chose what is and is not a sin. God is the one punishing for breaking those rules. But suddenly God is incapable of choosing to not punish people without literally murdering his son? And God sends people to hell for the "sin" of not "accepting" this "forgiveness" when he could've just chosen not to punish us? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? Possibly even the only wrongdoing of not accepting him if you otherwise followed everything? Even if they literally never even heard of God? If God is real then he's psychopathic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) God paid the price Himself. How's this psychopathic? How could a perfect being exist in a perfect realm with people running about committing atrocities? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago It's awfully dramatic to kill yourself and say that accepting you did it means people get forgiveness from your own wrath instead of simply choosing to not punish people if they accept you. How is it not gas lighting? "The only way for me to forgive you for the wickedness of original sin is for me to kill myself and for you to accept that. No, I can't just choose to not send people to hell if they believe in me, I have to also kill myself." How can that not be viewed as guilt tripping people? The entire concept of original sin is also horrible because Adam and Eve literally did not know the difference between right and wrong when they sinned. They did not know what they were doing was wrong. They did not know the difference between good and evil until they ate the fruit. So God punishes all of humanity for all eternity just because two people made an honest mistake? God subjects people to an infinite amount of suffering in hell if they die as a baby because two people did something wrong when they literally didn't didn't even know right from wrong. The idea of calling any of this justice is beyond me. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm no longer religious, but I find that religion has some sense in its own right. Provided it's not shoved down people's throats. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -10 points 2 years ago (3 children) Depends what you mean as "shoved down people's throats" do you mean normal evangelism via freedom of speech or Christian nationalism, like the Louisiana 10 commandments cringe permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're getting downvoted because so many Americans experience normal evangelism as people literally thumping a Bible while threatening them with hell and damnation. And evangelists (the religious sect, not the act) are largely responsible for the repeal of women's rights in the US. They're currently trying to make women unable to travel without government permission. So it's kind of a loaded word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The religious sect are evangelicals, not evangelists. A sincere Christian evangelist doesn't want you to go to Hell - The thing is, we completely believe in it and we are warning you about what we believe is inevitable. The most hateful thing we could do is not warn you about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) To be honest, even proselytisation can come off as being condescending. A Christian is basically telling to the person "my religion is better than yours. You are a sinful person and you will be cast into the fires of hell. It will not happen to you if you accept Jesus as lord and saviour!" And it is not like evangelisation is done out of pure power of persuasive words and good teachings from the bible alone. Aside from threat of eternal damnation, many missionnaries tend to incentivise people by offering food or help, in exchange for the locals to listen to proselytisation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) Look at it from our perspective, though. We fully believe in Hell, and that everyone is sinful and deserving of it. And nobody can escape it without living a life of genuine repentance to God, trusting alone in the sacrifice that He made for us. The most hateful thing we can do is not warn you about it, but just watch you waltz your own way down to your destruction. Now, yes, there are many hypocrites who aren't really evangelising at all and only do it to feed their ego, and God will deal with them justly, but for me and many others, we don't want you to go to Hell. We want you, when your body gives up, to be in Heaven, where there is no more suffering or pain. When I tell people about Jesus and the Gospel - it's not to further an agenda. It's out of love and genuine care. And if it means spending resources on feeding people so they'd listen, then it's worth it. Just like how some places gave out rewards to people who got a COVID-19 vaccine, we wanted to reward someone for doing something that's for their own good. If we were absolutely convinced that we had the method to eternal life - and that method is very much free - wouldn't it be selfish for us to keep it to ourselves and not tell others? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I can think of an example of "shoved down people's throats" being born into a Jehovah's witnesses family. 18 years of forced indoctrination. No choice whatsoever. Very damaging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Oh gosh, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an abusive cult. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. It's annoying trying to reach their members as well as they are taught to immediately stop talking to anyone questioning the Watchtower. I was talking to a pioneer once, revealed that I was Christian and then a guy who seemed to be a minder gave me a "tract" and told me that it was time for him to shut up shop for the night. It was very very strange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -10 points 2 years ago (3 children) Depends what you mean as "shoved down people's throats" do you mean normal evangelism via freedom of speech or Christian nationalism, like the Louisiana 10 commandments cringe permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're getting downvoted because so many Americans experience normal evangelism as people literally thumping a Bible while threatening them with hell and damnation. And evangelists (the religious sect, not the act) are largely responsible for the repeal of women's rights in the US. They're currently trying to make women unable to travel without government permission. So it's kind of a loaded word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The religious sect are evangelicals, not evangelists. A sincere Christian evangelist doesn't want you to go to Hell - The thing is, we completely believe in it and we are warning you about what we believe is inevitable. The most hateful thing we could do is not warn you about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) To be honest, even proselytisation can come off as being condescending. A Christian is basically telling to the person "my religion is better than yours. You are a sinful person and you will be cast into the fires of hell. It will not happen to you if you accept Jesus as lord and saviour!" And it is not like evangelisation is done out of pure power of persuasive words and good teachings from the bible alone. Aside from threat of eternal damnation, many missionnaries tend to incentivise people by offering food or help, in exchange for the locals to listen to proselytisation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) Look at it from our perspective, though. We fully believe in Hell, and that everyone is sinful and deserving of it. And nobody can escape it without living a life of genuine repentance to God, trusting alone in the sacrifice that He made for us. The most hateful thing we can do is not warn you about it, but just watch you waltz your own way down to your destruction. Now, yes, there are many hypocrites who aren't really evangelising at all and only do it to feed their ego, and God will deal with them justly, but for me and many others, we don't want you to go to Hell. We want you, when your body gives up, to be in Heaven, where there is no more suffering or pain. When I tell people about Jesus and the Gospel - it's not to further an agenda. It's out of love and genuine care. And if it means spending resources on feeding people so they'd listen, then it's worth it. Just like how some places gave out rewards to people who got a COVID-19 vaccine, we wanted to reward someone for doing something that's for their own good. If we were absolutely convinced that we had the method to eternal life - and that method is very much free - wouldn't it be selfish for us to keep it to ourselves and not tell others? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I can think of an example of "shoved down people's throats" being born into a Jehovah's witnesses family. 18 years of forced indoctrination. No choice whatsoever. Very damaging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Oh gosh, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an abusive cult. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. It's annoying trying to reach their members as well as they are taught to immediately stop talking to anyone questioning the Watchtower. I was talking to a pioneer once, revealed that I was Christian and then a guy who seemed to be a minder gave me a "tract" and told me that it was time for him to shut up shop for the night. It was very very strange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're getting downvoted because so many Americans experience normal evangelism as people literally thumping a Bible while threatening them with hell and damnation. And evangelists (the religious sect, not the act) are largely responsible for the repeal of women's rights in the US. They're currently trying to make women unable to travel without government permission. So it's kind of a loaded word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The religious sect are evangelicals, not evangelists. A sincere Christian evangelist doesn't want you to go to Hell - The thing is, we completely believe in it and we are warning you about what we believe is inevitable. The most hateful thing we could do is not warn you about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The religious sect are evangelicals, not evangelists. A sincere Christian evangelist doesn't want you to go to Hell - The thing is, we completely believe in it and we are warning you about what we believe is inevitable. The most hateful thing we could do is not warn you about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah that's a pretty thin hair when Americans read about evangelicals protesting soldier funerals. Or like it was at college where they literally ran around the public areas looking to interrupt any same sex PDA. I know there are people who recruit respectfully and inclusively. I've met them. But we all have more exposure to the other kind. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) I understand what you mean, and I am sorry that you have to put up with these horrendous individuals. Matthew 7:21-23 βNot everyone who says to me, βLord, Lord,β will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, βLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?β Then I will declare to them, βI never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago That is such a great quote. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) To be honest, even proselytisation can come off as being condescending. A Christian is basically telling to the person "my religion is better than yours. You are a sinful person and you will be cast into the fires of hell. It will not happen to you if you accept Jesus as lord and saviour!" And it is not like evangelisation is done out of pure power of persuasive words and good teachings from the bible alone. Aside from threat of eternal damnation, many missionnaries tend to incentivise people by offering food or help, in exchange for the locals to listen to proselytisation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) Look at it from our perspective, though. We fully believe in Hell, and that everyone is sinful and deserving of it. And nobody can escape it without living a life of genuine repentance to God, trusting alone in the sacrifice that He made for us. The most hateful thing we can do is not warn you about it, but just watch you waltz your own way down to your destruction. Now, yes, there are many hypocrites who aren't really evangelising at all and only do it to feed their ego, and God will deal with them justly, but for me and many others, we don't want you to go to Hell. We want you, when your body gives up, to be in Heaven, where there is no more suffering or pain. When I tell people about Jesus and the Gospel - it's not to further an agenda. It's out of love and genuine care. And if it means spending resources on feeding people so they'd listen, then it's worth it. Just like how some places gave out rewards to people who got a COVID-19 vaccine, we wanted to reward someone for doing something that's for their own good. If we were absolutely convinced that we had the method to eternal life - and that method is very much free - wouldn't it be selfish for us to keep it to ourselves and not tell others? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 years ago (3 children) Look at it from our perspective, though. We fully believe in Hell, and that everyone is sinful and deserving of it. And nobody can escape it without living a life of genuine repentance to God, trusting alone in the sacrifice that He made for us. The most hateful thing we can do is not warn you about it, but just watch you waltz your own way down to your destruction. Now, yes, there are many hypocrites who aren't really evangelising at all and only do it to feed their ego, and God will deal with them justly, but for me and many others, we don't want you to go to Hell. We want you, when your body gives up, to be in Heaven, where there is no more suffering or pain. When I tell people about Jesus and the Gospel - it's not to further an agenda. It's out of love and genuine care. And if it means spending resources on feeding people so they'd listen, then it's worth it. Just like how some places gave out rewards to people who got a COVID-19 vaccine, we wanted to reward someone for doing something that's for their own good. If we were absolutely convinced that we had the method to eternal life - and that method is very much free - wouldn't it be selfish for us to keep it to ourselves and not tell others? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] nefonous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Except that it's not 2000 years ago anymore. Literally everyone knows about Christianity, hell and Jesus already. You're not coming with some obscure new secret. If they don't believe it's because they don't want to, so please do leave them alone. If they look interested instead, then yes of course help them out. But going to them first and starting telling them how their soul will burn in hell for eternity is definitely not a nice thing to do to anyone. Nobody asked your opinion there. If me and my group of 200 people believe that there is an evil invisible monster that will curse the soul of everyone unless they come to our church and listen to our priest once a week, would you like all 200 of them to come to you and tell you the same story all over again and again until you give up and go? No, I don't think you'd like that. It's just a matter of respecting each other faith (or lack of) and personal freedom. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 points 2 years ago You can offer it but thrusting immortality on those who think death gives meaning to their life is just another form of abuse. It's not kindness to demand things of others you can only guide them like a flock and hope they make the right choices. Respect others right to free will. You accept the no and hope and wait they change their mind by leaving your door open. This is what the devour get wrong. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Fair enough except hell isn't real. The Talmud/Old Testament doesn't even mention it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -2 points 2 years ago The Talmud isn't the same as the Old Testament at all, it belongs to a completely different religion. The Old Testament mentions hell quite a lot. Such as Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 139:8. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I can think of an example of "shoved down people's throats" being born into a Jehovah's witnesses family. 18 years of forced indoctrination. No choice whatsoever. Very damaging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Oh gosh, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an abusive cult. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. It's annoying trying to reach their members as well as they are taught to immediately stop talking to anyone questioning the Watchtower. I was talking to a pioneer once, revealed that I was Christian and then a guy who seemed to be a minder gave me a "tract" and told me that it was time for him to shut up shop for the night. It was very very strange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Oh gosh, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an abusive cult. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. It's annoying trying to reach their members as well as they are taught to immediately stop talking to anyone questioning the Watchtower. I was talking to a pioneer once, revealed that I was Christian and then a guy who seemed to be a minder gave me a "tract" and told me that it was time for him to shut up shop for the night. It was very very strange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[β] StormWalker@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you say that you are a Christian it's actually going to put them into a threat mode. Because you are not in their religion, you are in a "false religion" and you may "trick" them away from their religion. So they will talk at you, and if you reason back then will give up. JWs only talk to people who they believe that they have a good chance of converting. If you start we win a conversation with a JW he/she will just give up and spend their efforts elsewhere. It is extremely annoying, especially if it's your JW family members that you are trying to reason with. It's amazing the power of daily brainwashing.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 point 2 years ago If you reason with them about anything they will tell you to check their website permalink fedilink source parent
