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When did Microsoft stop developing Windows to be good? (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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Nowadays Windows is filled with adware and is fairly slow, but it wasn't always like this. Was there a particular time where a change occurred?

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[–] 7 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

Yesterday.

Yesterday I finally looked up how to manually add a program to the main menu on my Ubuntu machine.

There is no default way to do it. I did multiple searches for the information, which I couldn't get from reddit because the browser can't login for some reason that I haven't figured out yet. You either wrestle with massive configuration files, or you have to manually install a program called "Main Menu". That provides an interface which is completely bespoke to do what is effectively adding shortcuts into a folder structure.

So I went through the process of figuring out what this unaccountably bespoke, third party specialised application wanted from me before I could customise the items on the main menu of my own machine. After all that... it crashed. I tried again, and nothing happened. It just... wouldn't run the command any more.

I ended that travesty of an excursion into Linux's many mountains of madness by giving up. I still haven't added the shortcut. I decided I had actual work to do.

In Windows you do that by... adding shortcut files to a folder structure using a file explorer, literally the same way you manipulate files in every other context.

Every time someone tells me Linux is "easy" I have a new, fresh, utterly bonkers story of how impossible the entire experience is, because I am currently, actively trying. I have been trying Linux for 15 fucking years. Stop with the gaslighting. It is a nightmare.

15 years ago, I read all about how easy Linux is now:

https://slrpnk.net/comment/9790061

Nothing has fundamentally changed.

This is not a request for help. I do not want you to solve this current problem for me. I can do that myself. The problem is that these problems are neverending and people just cannot accept that it is a huge problem. Please, I beg you, open your eyes, acknowledge the issue, and stop lying.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yeah, the “Linux is easy” rhetoric doesn’t really do Linux any favors. If you’ve been told “Linux is easy” and it’s not, then you have a tendency to give up because “well if it’s easy for everyone else but I can’t figure it out, I guess it’s just not for me.”

    Trying to convert someone to Linux needs to be an honest conversation, and “Linux is easy” isn’t honest. There will be growing pains. You will need to re-learn things. You will need to google things. You will get an insane amount of toxic “lul rtfm noob” responses from the community if you ever have the audacity to ask for help. If you’re lucky, they’ll at least include a link to the relevant documentation.

    But at least that’s honest, and will give the person realistic expectations. They won’t go into it expecting a direct 1:1 Windows replacement, only to be disappointed. People who say “Linux is easy” are like the vegan trying to convince you that soy bacon tastes exactly like the real thing, in an attempt to convert you. When it tastes worse than the real thing, you’ll just be disappointed and less likely to convert to veganism in the future.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    I want to be clear, I didn't say it's easy. I said it's easier than you probably expect. The biggest thing is you have to accept that it isn't Windows and you'll have to learn it, like you did for Windows at some point in time. Expecting it to work the same as Windows is where most issues come in.

    I've heard riding a unicycle isn't that hard, but if you try to ride it like a bike and expect it to do the same then you're probably going to be in pain.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I agree with you, there are many things about Linux that technically work, but are rough around the edges. I know said you're not looking for solutions, but I could offer some generic advice, have you tried using KDE as your desktop?

    GNOME (which is what Ubuntu ships with by default) is not the best for easy user customization. It can be done, but as you said expects things done a certain way. I like KDE because it's more similar to Windows in that it gives you a bit more customization out of the box.

    Fedora KDE Spin is my recommendation, but if you want to stick with Ububtu then Kbuntu is also popular.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    I've trued kubuntu, xubuntu, mint, opensuse, kali (when I was learning pentesting) and I forget which others.

    If KDE is indeed more customisable I may have to give it another try, I do appreciate the information.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Like the other user said, KDE is more windows-like and my preference. Regardless, you're using a different operating system and desktop environment. It's going to want to do things in a different way that you're used to. You can wrestle whatever Linux distro you choose to behave more like Windows, but you're better off learning what it does differently and using it how it was intended. That's the biggest issue I see with people switching. They want a Windows copy, but it isn't Windows and shouldn't be expected to be. You had to learn Windows at some point. You'll have to learn Linux and whatever DE you choose.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    It's going to want to do things in a different way that you're used to.

    The point is not that it's different to what I'm used to. The point is this design decision takes what is fundamentally just adding shortcuts into a folder structure and completely rewrites the interface for no reason. And then it didn't even work. I did all that work just to hit a brick wall.

    You told me it's likely easier than I expect. Well, I am telling you that I know exactly what to expect because I am currently doing it, and it's not just hard. It is perverse.

    Like honestly I wouldn't be surprised if groups like Microsoft are deliberately sabotaging the user experience by adding shit like this. Not putting in deliberate security flaws, but deliberate design flaws. There certainly seems to be no sense of quality assurance when accepting one or another system as the way things are done.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    The point is this design decision takes what is fundamentally just adding shortcuts into a folder structure and completely rewrites the interface for no reason.

    How do you know that's what it is fundamentally? For Windows that's true, but probably not for Gnome. For KDE I can just install a package with the package manager and it's automatically in the search system. I don't know how it's doing it fundamentally, but it isn't the way Windows does it for sure because it doesn't require me touching it like Windows does.

    it's not just hard. It is perverse.

    Again, I have no idea what you're doing or interacting with, so I can't comment directly. For me personally, it works very well without much messing with it, while Windows required a bunch of registry edits and other things to make it work how I wanted. You just have to accept it for what it is and learn how to use it. It will take time to learn how it wants to work, not how you want it to work. It is literally perverse to try to force it to work like Windows instead of learning the new system.

    If you've only driven a car, you're probably going to find it rough driving a motercycle like a car. You're best off learning how to drive the motercycle the way it was designed to work.

    KDE is almost certainly more your style though. I know I didn't like gnome when I tried it a long time ago. Hopefully KDE fixes your issues, but it's still not Windows and you have to remember that. It will take time to learn how it wants you to use it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago*

    The metaphor is exactly the same as files and folders. That part is transparent, you don't need access to internal implementation details to understand it. The Main Menu program allows you to make "groups" which are no different than folders and "items" which are just shortcuts. For reasons completely lost on me, the files that represent these groups and folders exist flat in a single folder on the drive.

    So they reimplemented a folder structure using a markup language and then implemented an entirely bespoke interface to manipulate them. Then you have to search for what it's called and install it, and then it crashes anyway. It's just strange.

    And you're the second person telling me it should just be automatic with installation even though I specifically said I was making custom changes to the menu. I want to add things that aren't part of a standard installer. This should be a simple operation for a power user.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I've tried so many distros, I don't plan to stick with Ubuntu, but I haven't ever seen one that fixes these issues.

    The problem with draggin something into the bar is that it's a limited resource of space and it gets cluttered. You put things in menus so you can hide them away and recall them whenever. Hitting start and typing the program name is a much faster way to use the computer for me.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    It's the fullscreen app launcher that I'm trying to use, that needs this bizarre solution.

    And also, asking people to completely swap out their OS or window manager just to solve an activity menu bug is kind of unhinged. I have already done so much work to get this machine working to this state. I rely on it. Starting from scratch is incredibly discouraging, so I put up with all sorts of friction, hate the experience, and go back to Windows on my main machine.

    Plus, what if I switch to KDE, do all that work, and discover another painful, endemic bug? "Just switch distros" is the "just break up" of linux advice. It's easy, lazy, accomplishes nothing, and most people won't do it.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago*

    I already mentioned switching window managers. It's still way beyond most users to do something that drastic to solve a simple problem.

    I'm not saying I can't do it. I can and I may. I'm saying you can't start with "it's easy" then slide straight into, "switch distros/desktops". That's the opposite of easy.

    And based on how hard everything else in Linux is, I suspect I just don't have the energy for it and will just put up with no shortcuts for now, which is what I've been saying this whole time.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    For me on KDE (might be different for gnome) I hit the super key (windows key) and just start typing the name of the package I want to use and hit enter when it's there, very similar to Windows except it doesn't need to be exicitly added.

    How are you installing packages? Are you using a package manager? You usually don't need to handle the tedium that Windows has made you think is normal. Your package manager should handle this stuff.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    /usr/share/applications buddy

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    You either wrestle with massive configuration files (located at /usr/share/applications buddy)

    This is not a request for help. I do not want you to solve this current problem for me. I can do that myself. The problem is that these problems are neverending and people just cannot accept that it is a huge problem. Please, I beg you, open your eyes, acknowledge the issue, and stop lying.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    I just mean to say that's all a shortcut is in windows, so liking one and hating another is a bit contradictory.

    KDE also has a quite nice application editor

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I explained the problem quite thoroughly, it's your choice to be a toxic linux fanboy and ignore how obviously shit the solution is.

    And there is a significant difference in how you're expected to make the shortcuts. In windows the operation is built in, default, seamless. In Linux it is unworkably tedious. The fact you don't see the difference is a serious problem.

    And the idea I should replace the entire OS or window manager just because of this one bizarre problem I couldn't possibly have anticipated when installing is absurd. You people want linux to be universal and you expect people to work this hard at adoption, and you blame them when they give up on your toxic bullshit? You are deluded.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm not gonna lie I don't think anyone who uses Linux thinks every tool should solve every problem, yeah.

    But hey if you want your software to not work you're free to!

    All I do in KDE is right click applications and click edit applications for anyone wondering, as someone as simple as myself only understands GUI's not fancy folder rearranging

    (Like a built in operation? Moving a custom binary to a specific folder is easy? How do you even find this location? And this could be a 2 line script? How much copium you gotta huff to use windows and see its workflow as holy is insane. Ik this ain't the boy scounts level self sufficient but you gotta have at least one or two thoughts bouncing around to use Linux, and for the love of God know what an OS and window manager do before you use them incorrectly, cause both are compatible across gdm/sddm to gnome/KDE plasma)

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I hate Windows. I just acknowledge that toxic Linux fanboys like you are only making the problem worse. You suck, and Linux has massive problems.

    I know you don't care, I've met too many people like you to imagine you'll ever stop this bullshit.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm glad I'm personally the problem in an OS lol

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Way to prove you're not a toxic asshole - aggressively misunderstand me and then laugh about it.

    EDIT: I leave this comment, then it gets downvoted along with every comment on my profile for at least one page worth of comments. That's another way to prove you're the reasonable one I guess.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Hey I havent down voted anything if it helps.

    To get a bit more philosophical I think it's almost important there's assholes like me in the Linux community; its growing desktop share is great but at the end of the day you have to WANT to use it to make full use of Linux as a tool, and if you are hellbent on finding problems with it you can just leave if you're not having fun - were not like Microsoft, nor will follow its customs.

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