this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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I have personally worked with Fetterman a number of times while I was working for Allegheny county. He had some moderate stances on things like Israeli support, but not like this. Also, he spent his entire time as mayor of Braddock pushing a lot of very progressive things. He actively turned down opportunities to not be living in his office, and get highly paid, in order to fight a large amount of resistance he faced, even among the people he directly worked with in Braddock. He had a provable, positive, long term, impact on Braddock. He demonstrated that a lot of progressive ideas works, because Braddock implemented them, and it worked. This had a impact on how Pittsburgh, and Allegheny county in general, looked at the future, and how to best design it.
He has demonstrated he is staunchly pro-labor and, in the past, has demonstrated so via sacrificing political payola to do that, among many other progressive things. So I am very conflicted at this serious increase in, what was previously a relatively moderate, stance on Israel. I have to wonder if it was the stroke, or did he strike a deal with AIPAC.
I think most people that were adults when 9/11 happened dont expect peace to ever be possible between the arabs and the west, and see hamas and all the other extremists as suicidially determined genocidal crusaders.
Especially so since Hamas knew they had no chance of winning any conflict they started with the Oct 7th attack but did it anyway, and maintain popular support in gaza even now.
It's not that older Americans necessarily want to see Palestinians slaughtered but don't see any peaceful alternative to ending the conflict, and see it more as a 'fuck around and find out' situation, so long as Israel doesnt start putting people in ovens (for some even if they do).
As an aside, geopolitically, thats kinda the point of (funding and arming and training and informing) Hamas. To make peace impossible, because peace benefits the west.
For the sake of spreading their ideology and increasing their support, their backers want a forever war.
I was an adult when 9/11 happened. From my personal experience it didn't push people to believe this. It simply drew those thoughts out of them. I didn't know a single person who decided to hate muslims when it happened, those people already hated people who look different, and have different cultures/religions. 9/11 just gave them an opportunity to run their mouths about their bigotry. Also, everything you just said about peace among arabs has also been applied to africans, and was also said about europe until after WW2, regardless of their culture/religion, and was a common line of BS well before it.
The only thing it may have done is make previously ignorant bigots aware of arabs. The one thing I have noticed that changed, is knowledge of just how much "the west" has intentionally done to destabilize anyone who wont bend to their economic empires, has become mainstream. People living in the west are far less generously minded about their own countries' current affairs, and histories, than they were 30 years ago. It has actually become a societal issue, in that a significant portion of the population just can't handle how shitty the reality of their birth place is, and is now one of the major talking points of the alt-right. Backlash to this has also been a growing sentiment to more than just the far right too.
europeans vs arabs is an old, old, thing. The talking points of how the arab world can never know peace is just as old.
Yeah I remember when it happened. I was watching the news but at the same time checking the internet forums (where I actually heard about the first plane), and things there were not nearly so rah rah who dares attack.
Sure folks were scared but even on the DAY OF the towers coming down people were dropping facts about how, yeah terrorism is bad, but this is a direct consequence of the we in the West fucking with the middle east.
So I don't think age is an excuse. It was pretty pretty clear from the start who was cool to getting woke about the reasons behind the attacks and who was a reactionary chud looking for a Desert Storm sequel.
Yup, everyone I know but "that one uncle" was like, well it was gonna happen some time, didn't expect it to be that big, but something bad was going to happen.
They shut down the city. I was in downtown and I was sitting on top of my car watching a combination of police, and national guard, evacuate everyone, as one of the potential targets of flight 93 was downtown. Military flying over head, M939s carrying in national guard, and carrying out civilians, alarms and and emergency broadcasts being broadcast over loud speaker I never even noticed existed before. It was kinda crazy.
It was crazy yeah.
As an aside, I think some people have been trying to recapture that momentary sense of purpose and mobilisation ever since. Like we're doing something together against a threat! We're united! Things are happening!
If that impulse would only be directed in a constructive direction...
Yeah, they have been stoking that fire since I was born. Moral panic, after moral panic, all with the underlying foundation being that the people doing these things aren't good, god fearing, christian, white, conservatives. I think the current level of this, anti-trans for example, have gotten this big due to decades of work on the part of those pushing these moral panics through mainstream media venues. People like Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Bill O-Reilly, Tucker Carlson, to really shake up the dynamics, since it is the 2000s, Ann Coulter. Now that we are in the internet era, Alex Jones, Mike Knowles, Ben Shapiro, Lauren southern, Hanna Davis, Tomi Lahren (wow several women now) and for a really modern look, a dash of color, Candice Owens.
My adult child was a child during 911. At least once parent held some support for some Arabs they considered as friends, who decided to return to their home nation, because of the absolute vitriol spread by the W administration. When tfg became a candidate, suddenly everyone who uttered any sort of disagreement with their opinion became a Muslim. Now their candidate's lies have landed them in legal hot water, anyone who disagrees must be "Do---- T----".
But I'll bet my last dollar since Haley (also a horrible candidate)dropped out and endorsed tfg, they will vote for tfg, and whatever his favorite target du jour is will become their favorite projection.
Ok. What if I break into your house, lock you up in the toilet and regularly beat you and your family up? Worse, the Police is actively supporting it. Would you fight back any way you can? Would your actions be called "terrorism" or "extremism"? Would you not fight back even when you know the odds are against you? Fuck off, Zionist.
The point is Hamas didn't exist before the state of Israel. It was created as a response to Israel terrorists stealing Palestinians land.
Calling an entire people "rabid dogs" definitely tells me this is totally not fueled by racism of any kind and that you're definitely on the right side of history
hamas, not palestine as a whole.
The answer is Israel leaves and goes back to make a state in Germany where it should have been made in the first place.
It's pretty crazy how Hamas has demonstrably agreed to a ceasefire multiple times, israel rejects it, and we still have people whining about how Hamas doesn't want peace.