this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
127 points (91.5% liked)

Asklemmy

43782 readers
925 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy ๐Ÿ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
127
What is the definition of capitalism? Is it compatible with people owning the things they produce? (reddthat.com)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
136 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

@[email protected] asked "why are folks so anti-capitalist?" not long ago. It got quite a few comments. But I noticed a trend: a lot of people there didn't agree on the definition of "capitalism".

And the lack of common definition was hobbling the entire discussion. So I wanted to ask a precursor question. One that needs to be asked before anybody can even start talking about whether capitalism is helpful or good or necessary.

Main Question

  • What is capitalism?
  • Since your answer above likely included the word "capital", what is capital?
  • And either,
    • A) How does capitalism empower people to own what they produce? or, (if you believe the opposite,)
    • B) How does capitalism strip people of their control over what they produce?

Bonus Questions (mix and match or take them all or ignore them altogether)

  1. Say you are an individual who sells something you create. Are you a capitalist?
  2. If you are the above person, can you exist in both capitalist society and one in which private property has been abolished?
  3. Say you create and sell some product regularly (as above), but have more orders than you can fulfill alone. Is there any way to expand your operation and meet demand without using capitalist methods (such as hiring wage workers or selling your recipes / process to local franchisees for a cut of their proceeds, etc)?
  4. Is the distinction between a worker cooperative and a more traditional business important? Why is the distinction important?
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I didn't realize people were advocating philosophies that bowed to the idea that "needs" should take priority over personal possessions.

Yeah, I tend to work Maslow's work into my take on political systems. Maybe I should call myself an anarcho-Maslowist or something. Heh.

I do really think that society is best that best fulfills people's needs. And by "needs," I mean something very like the way Maslow used the term. I'm not sure what higher purpose one could give for a society than the fulfillment of needs, really.

(Mind you, I do know that there have been other psychologists who have built on Maslow's work as well as some with different models of needs. I don't necessarily mean to exclude those other definitions of needs. I don't think it would serve us well to be dogmatic about one person's take. But even if Maslow can be improved on, I do think the broad strokes of his take are on to something.)

To be fair, just about any purpose a society might have can be shoehorned into the language of "needs" and that paradigm may be better for some things than others.

Also, of course, more basic needs are more important. If you're trying to improve things and you have one option that will address society's unfulfilled need for basic sustinence and another option that will improve society's access to aesthetic fulfillment, let's fill people's bellies first and put up murals later.

Now, I do largely believe in "usership," but the idea can definitely go too far. If in the revolution, Ted takes possession of a mansion and uses it daily for a private indoor jogging track, that's fine with me so long as others are not deprived of some sufficiently basic need. Under a strict usership system, one could say that Ted uses all of that mansion daily and that there is no "surplus" of space there. And, again if others are not deprived, I have no issue with it. But if homelessness exists in that area, Ted's claim to that mansion for his comparatively frivolous use of the structure is superceded by other people's right to not have to live in a tent under a bridge.

But this is all mostly my own take. I don't think I've seen anyone else take quite the same stance on things. But then, I haven't really read that much anarchist theory either. Just Conquest of Bread and /r/Anarchism, pretty much. (Oh, and some random guy on a first person shooter I used to play a lot that was my introduction to anarchism.)

Edit: Oh! Also, there is the whole "to each according to need" thing. Maybe Marx would've been a fan of Maslow's ideas. Who knows.