this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
907 points (97.1% liked)
Technology
60062 readers
3555 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Nice pipe dream, but the current fundamental model of AI is not and cannot be made deterministic. Until that fundamental chamge is developed, it isnt possible.
I have to constantly remind people about this very simple fact of AI modeling right now. Keep up the good work!
What do you mean? AI absolutely can be made deterministic. Do you have a source to back up your claim?
You know what’s not deterministic? Human content reviewers.
Besides, determinism isn’t important for utility. Even if AI classified an ad wrong 5% of the time, it’d still massively clean up the spammy advertisers. But they’re far, FAR more accurate than that.
https://www.sitation.com/non-determinism-in-ai-llm-output/
AI can be made deterministic, yes, absolutely.
The current design everyone is using(LLMs) cannot be made deterministic.
Again, you are wrong. Specifically ChatGPT may not be able to be deterministic since it’s a hosted service, but you absolutely can replay a prompt using the same random seed to get deterministic responses. Computer randomness isn’t truly random.
But if that’s not satisfying enough, you can also configure the temperature to be zero and system fingerprinting to always be the same, and that makes it even more deterministic, since it will always use the highest probability token.
For example, Llama can be fully deterministic. https://github.com/huggingface/transformers/issues/25507#issuecomment-1678498896
I love your wishful thinking. Too bad academia doesnt agree with you.
Edit: also, I have to come back to laugh at you for trying to argue that the almost random nature of software random number generators is deterministic AI.
Please enlighten me then. Clearly people are doing it, as proved by the link I sent. Are you simply going to ignore that? Perhaps we have different definitions of determinism.
You can make it more deterministic by reducing the acceptable range of answers, absolutely. But then you also limit your output, so thats never really a good use case.
Randomness is a core functionality of not just LLMs, but the entire stack that has resulted in LLMs. Yes you can get a decently consistent answer, but not a deterministic one. Put another way, with LLMs being at max constraint, you can ask them to add 1+1. You'll usually get 2. But not nearly always.
Yes, but seeding the random generator makes it deterministic. Because LLMs don’t use actual randomness, they use pseudorandom generators.
For all the same inputs, you’ll get the same result, barring a hardware failure. But you have to give it exactly the same inputs. That includes random seed and system prompt (eg. you can’t put the current time and date in the system prompt), as well as the prompt.
No, thats not how it works. Ive already explained and posted links as to why.
You posted a single blog post about ChatGPT not being deterministic, I posted a GitHub issue that explains exactly how to do it using the transformers library. Not sure we can see eye to eye on this one.