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Dune: Good and based or bad and reactionary? (hexbear.net)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
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This is the official hexbear Dune discussion thread (not really)

I watched the new Dune and enjoyed the films from a cinematic/fantasy perspective but wasn't super on-board with the politics as I thought the message was simply 'leaders bad', but what didn't come across (imo) from the movies and what I'm learning from discussion of the books is that the message is more nuanced than that: Herbert's message wasn't "don't blindly follow leaders because they're evil", but "don't blindly follow leaders because movements based on blind belief are a force of their own and can sweep everyone up into a mess, even if that was not at all the intention", and there are of course examples of that happening throughout human history. I want to hear all of your thoughts on the books, the films, and the messages. Thanks. heart-sickle

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[–] 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

He wasn't the worst guy, certainly republicans back then werent so frothing at the mouth

He was around during McCarthyism

...and I think he was more on the libertarian side...

I am aware, and tha is why I continue to be bewildered by the feudalism comment, I get the ancap to monarchist pipeline but when he talks about his ideas for America it is in general democratizing. When I first read it I assumed it was a joke.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    What I mean is that while Frank Herbert may have never accepted socialism or it's like, he would've likely balked at the continued imperialist interventions in it's future, specifically in the middle east. I imagine he would've also been an advocate for addressing climate change. He was, at the very least, someone who had somewhat nuanced beliefs, which feels rarer among the conservatives we see now (as we slip closer to fascism). Granted if he were somehow alive today it's likely he d just be another doddering old piece of shit.

    As for the feudalism stuff, I'm not sure what character promoted the feudalism but it's pretty clear that Herbert didn't see that as the best system. He definitely believed in great men doing great things, and of the need for adversity. If you read God Emperor this is really hammered in. If anything he seems to argue that humans are doomed to cycles of oppression and "freedom" and that is the cycle that Leto 2 is attempting to break by being the ultimate tyrant.

    Anyways, I'm definitely not really trying to defend Herbert here. I just got done going through books 2-4, and went through God emperor two times. I first read these books in highschool when I was still in the clutches of my families reactionary ideology and a lot of the great man stuff and shitty philosophy of God emperor (which is really where a lot of his personal political beliefs bleed through) clicked with me now, but seems very stupid now. If you do read it I would say to pretend to yourself that his personal assistant Moneo is a closeted homosexual as that was something I finally picked up on (it's almost certainly not intended by Herbert, it's just very interested to read it that way).

    Also I'm typing this on my phone so sorry if what I'm writing kind of goes all over the place. Ive got bad ADHD and if I'm not at a PC to proofread myself I can smash out pretty incoherent messes

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