posts
I’m in the rabbit hole trying to work out which AMD CPUs are spychip free. It’s non-trivial and looks like we cannot draw a line and simply say all successor chips released after that line are spychips.
One rabbit hole begins with this 2014 AMD family: "Kaveri" (2014) & "Godavari" (2015)
Which states:
“Integrated custom ARM Cortex-A5 co-processor[47] with TrustZone Security Extensions[48] in select APU models, except the Performance APU models.[49]”
This implies there are some Kaveri or Godavari CPUs that are spychip free. Footnote 49 links to this AMD sales pitch. Worth noting that someone on the coreboot project also found those same sales presentation slides interesting:
https://github.com/mikebdp2/coreboot-related/tree/master
Page 12 was cited in the footnote, which shows a claim that “Carrizo” (which describes a whole family of 2016 processors) is the “1st ARM TrustZone Capable Performance APU”. Yet 2013 is widely believed to be when the garbage came. Apparently the keyword is “APU”. If true, then pre-Carrizo (2016) APUs are spychip free, while conventional CPUs were enshitified as early as 2013.
But there could be a nastier nuance here. What is a “performance APU”? Is the word performance important in this context? If yes, then earlier non-performance APUs (whatever that may refer to) could be spy chips.
Anyway, by extension of page 12 info, some would conclude that all the APUs listed for "Kaveri" (2014) & "Godavari" (2015) are spychip free (that is, the processors which include an embedded GPU), but not the CPUs.
No one has mentioned page 22 of that presentation, which states that an AMD A9-9410 which is based on "Stoney Ridge" (2016) does not have “trusted execution security”, which implies no PSP IIUC. Do I understand correctly? Does this mean a 2016 chip based on Excavator does not have the PSP despite Carrizo having it in APUs a year prior? Update: the slide must be wrong. This page asserts that models 60h and later within the 15h family are spychips. That includes Excavator and thus Stoney Ridge, unless there is another exception that’s undocumented.
This article claims we must nix Kaveri and look for prior releases. OTOH, this article claims Kaveri is safe.
I am tempted to conclude that the APU half of Kaveri is safe. But there is another contradiction in Wikipedia. The Kaveri mobile processors are all APUs, and yet Wikipedia claims they are all: “Integrated custom ARM Cortex-A5 co-processor[47] with TrustZone Security Extensions[48]”. Does this go back to the keyword “performance” APUs? Are mobile APUs regarded as non-performance APUs?
(update) We can see that “ro” includes the conventional CPUs within Kaveri as spychip-free:
Steamroller/Kaveri (Desktop APUs)
Athlon X2 450 (2x 3,5 Ghz, 65W)
Athlon X4 840 (4x 3,1 Ghz, 65W)
Athlon X4 860K (4x 3,7 Ghz, 95W)
Athlon X4 870K (4x 3,9 Ghz, 95W)
Athlon X4 880K (4x 4,0 Ghz, 95W)
FX-770K (4x 3,5 Ghz, 65W)
But that’s likely a mistake per the sales slide and exception in the Wikipedia footnote. I would not trust those chips. Actually it’s not that clear cut. Excluding the APUs in that group as PSP does give cause to assume the CPUs have a PSP. Wikipedia lacks a source that attributes any chips in that section to having a PSP. We also don’t know what drives the claim that Kaveri is unsafe in this research.. perhaps someone trusting Wikipedia.
(update) Another dicey set of chips: Kabini
If we have confidence in page 12 of the AMD sales slides, then we would trust the performance APUs among the "Kaveri" (2014) & "Godavari" (2015) families, which are based on Steamroller (15h gen3). So naturally we would be tempted to trust older performance APUs like the 2013 ones codenamed “Kabini”.
The wikipedia section for Kabini neglects to mention trustzone, which adds to our confidence. However, the microarchitecture for these chips is Jaguar, which is 16h. 16h is newer than 15h, and rightfully distrusted by “ro”, who spotlights this page which states:
“Please note that Family 16h and Family 15h-Models60h and later contain a PSP but it does not perform the memory initialization.”
Wikipedia claim unsubstantiated -- leaves outstanding question on Kaveri. Any mobile APU Kaveri owners reading this?
Since Kaveri is based on Steamroller, which has not been documented to include spy chips, I see no evidence for the Wikipedia claim in this section that there is a PSP. There is footnote 47 and 48, but those are vague. The sources say nothing about which specific chips will have the PSP.
I suppose we need someone with a laptop with one of those mobile APUs in the Kaveri family to try to test or detect a PSP and report back.
It would also help if someone with Wikipedia access would add a citation needed tag.
Update: Corporate boot lickers are ironically thick in this forum
Street-wise consumers phrase the question this way:
“Is there credible evidence that the hardware will serve my best interests as an individual non-corporate user?”
Corporate spokespeople, boot lickers, and convenience¹ addicts spin the question this way:
“Is there credible evidence that an attack has be demonstrated?”
There are two things going on here:
① First they want to do away with the prospect that the closed-source blob does anything intentional that works against the interest of the consumer who owns the CPU. The bias downplays malignment of interests. They shrink the focus to attacks.
② Then they play a game with burden of proof, suggesting the consumer has the burden of proof.
Wise consumers don’t accept that burden. It’s the seller’s burden. It’s the seller’s burden to show us the code. It is the seller’s burden to obtain a 3rd-party audit by infosec researchers. Sellers who neglect that burden can fuck off. AMD has not earned the business of smart consumers post 2013.
Wise consumers are increasingly in short supply. This is why the marketplace is becoming increasingly enshitified. And ultimately in part why retrocomputing is interesting to the small demographic of wise consumers.
(1) Convenience addicts being those who cannot resist fast and cheap - a demographic we don’t expect to find in !retrocomputing@lemmy.sdf.org.
In my search to list laptops that just barely pre-date the spy chips, MSI specs emerged:
MSI laptops using the Richland processor
MSI Gaming 3BE-273XES AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming Destroyer-280 AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3AE-095TW laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 16 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 7970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3AE-210NE Hitman Edition AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 7970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3AE-212FR Hitman Edition laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 4 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 7970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3AE-214XCZ Hitman Edition AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 7970M Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3AE-216US laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 7970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY English
MSI Gaming GX60 3AE-223NE Hitman Edition AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 7970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-233RU laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-235FR AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 4 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black AZERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-236XTH laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-238XRU laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 4 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 500 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-240US AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-246XFR AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-250RU laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-251CZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-253XCZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-263TH laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-272XCZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3BE-279UK AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-281US AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-283XFR AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-287XPL AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-400XRU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 4 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 500 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-401RU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-402RU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-404TW AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 7 Home Premium Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-415TW AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 7 Home Premium Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-418HU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC(Destroyer)-433XHU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC-276XVN Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 4 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC-292CZ Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC-293XCZ Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) FreeDOS Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC-294XES Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC-295UK Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60 3CC-296UK Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX60-3CC81FD (Destroyer) AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60-3CC87FD AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX60-A10897287 AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 39.6 cm (15.6") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black QWERTZ
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-003FR AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black AZERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-004RU laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-007US laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-008US laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-009NE laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-010NL laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-011BE laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-015CZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-016XCZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-027CZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 12 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-034XRU laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) FreeDOS Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-041UK laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 878 GB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-042TR laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 16 GB DDR3-SDRAM 878 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-065ES laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-079XRU laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-081TR laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 16 GB DDR3-SDRAM 878 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3BE-087XCZ laptop AMD A10 A10-5750M 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-098AU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 16 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-217XFR AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-220TW AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 16 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 7 Home Premium Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-226US AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 12 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-233RU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-234XRU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-238NL AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-239BE AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8 Black AZERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-259TW AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 16 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 7 Home Premium Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-261NE AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-262NL AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-266BE AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-267LU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-268HU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-275TR AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 16 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-278UA AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-283NL AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-284BE AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-287XES AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC(Destroyer)-289XHU AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC-201XCZ Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) FreeDOS Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC-227XES Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70 3CC-228UK Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 878 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 Destroyer AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 12 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 Destroyer-099 AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 12 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black QWERTY
MSI Gaming GX70 Destroyer-229 AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 12 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70-3CC81FD (Destroyer) AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1 TB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70-3CC87FD AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon R9 M290X FreeDOS Black
MSI Gaming GX70-3CC8H11B AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70-3CC8H11BW (Destroyer) AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3L-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon R9 M290X Windows 8.1 Black
MSI Gaming GX70-A10897287 AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 750 GB HDD AMD Radeon HD 8970M FreeDOS Black QWERTZ
MSI Gaming GX70H-A108972811B AMD A10 A10-5750M Laptop 43.9 cm (17.3") Full HD 8 GB DDR3-SDRAM 1.12 TB HDD+SSD AMD Radeon HD 8970M Windows 8 Black QWERTZ
WTF.. fuck me. What’s all this about a “destroyer”? And a “hitman edition”? What a fucking mess because they needed to market a gaming machine to kids. There is no wikipedia page that decodes the model numbers. It appears that the last two characters are a country code. From there if anyone has a secret decoder ring for MSI model numbers it would be appreciated.
In particular, if an MSI laptop has GX60 or GX70 in the model, can I count on it being an AMD Richland CPU? I think the “60” implies a 15.6″ display and “70” implies 17.3″ display. It’s unclear if some models would have an intel cpu.
It’s basically the same problem with Acer and ASUS laptops. There are a shit-ton of cryptic submodels. And no secret decoder ring.
This follows from my previous thread. I am struggling to find a list of laptops and their CPUs from that time period. Data sources covering that would be appreciated!
In principle, www.notebookcheck.net would be useful. But there are some ad-pushing protectionist motherfuckers behind that site. And 12ft.io is gone (either bullyed offline or could not workaround Google pulling the plug on their caches).
(update) Wow, here is a gem. Do I understand correctly -- there are 2025 laptops with a Trinity CPU? (edit) Something seems off.. they mention the Ideapad 1 as having the Trinity chip, but this says otherwise. Although “Ideapad 1” is apparently a series.
I got hold of this beautiful Cooler Master ATC-710-GX2 that is missing all the drive mounts. From my research it has same internal layout as Enermax CS-710
5.25” optical rails:
Review (https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/chassis/341-coolermaster-atc-710-gx1/?page=2) says they are standard Chieftec rails. Also found a pic for CS-710 rails which look the same. Can some one confirm they are compatible? (third photo)
3.5” HDD + floppy trays:
These are the sliding cartridge/sled style. Same review has a low-res photo of them. Looking for: high-res photos, any info or anyone who has spare original tray.
Any help appreciated ♥
(Yes I know my room is a mess I’m during a major reorganisation of my things)

Someone made an effort to work out which are the latest AMD chips that were released just prior to the PSP (iow, they discovered the non-spy chips). The linked article gives a list resulting from their efforts. This is interesting because intel began their spy chips in 2008. So an AMD from 2013 likely well outperforms the last of the spy-chip-free intels.
The author ended with:
Conclusion: You can choose any CPU/APU of the leftmost list to get the „latest“/last CPU without a PSP builtin.
What is meant by “leftmost list”? I just see a single list in my browser. And the sequence seems to be the opposite of what is claimed. Bulldozer seems to be older than Piledriver.
This is also just the 1st step. It would be useful to know which devices contain these AMD chips from 2013. In particular, laptops and mini PCs would be interesting. The search must be painful because ads for hardware tend not to mention the code names. In fact, h/w makers were not proud of their AMD selection and might altogether not mention AMD.
Where do I start? Anyone know which makers of laptops and mini PCs made heavy use of AMD in 2013? Searching for AMD mini pc 2013 gets a lot of hits mentioning “Ryzen”, which did not exist in 2013.
(update) Bulldozer was for the desktop and server markets. So probably safe to assume it would not be found in a mini PC or laptop. Worth noting that in 2025 there were FOSS firmware updates for piledriver and bulldozer.
(update 2) It is strange and annoying that Thinkpad timelines and history pages deceive readers into thinking AMD chips did not appear in Thinkpads until 2017. The 15h.org page reveals that the Thinkpad e545 not only has an AMD chip but it is pre-spychip. Searching specifically for Thinkpad e545 shows this.
(update 3) The author (“ro”) relied heavily on the cpu list in Wikipedia. But Wikipedia is incomplete. E.g. the AMD A4-9120e (code named “Stoney Ridge”) is unknown to wikipedia. It likely has PSP b/c it was designed 5 yrs after the first spy chip. But it’s hard to know what other CPUs were overlooked by Wikipedia around 2013.
(update 4) I’ve lost confidence in the work presented in the linked article. The author states this:
The Steamroller-Family incorporates the CPUs code-named by Kaveri. You could also use the Piledriver architecture with its code-names Trinity and Richland since they are prior to Steamroller.
We are led to believe that all chips based on the steamroller microarchitecture are safe (that is, spychip-free). After some digging, it was initially pleasing to find that some 2015 chips were still based on Steamroller. Which implies we can trust some chips as late as 2015. But in fact wikipedia states Kaveri has “Integrated custom ARM Cortex-A5 co-processor[34] with TrustZone Security Extensions[35]”.
Yikes!
It means we must reject the assumption that a microarchitecture is either wholly with or wholly without the PSP!
Yes, it was, in fact, a Unix system.
Everything in the set was real. We couldn’t fake any of it, because audiences are so sophisticated now in their knowledge of computers. All told, $875,000 worth of computer hardware loaned by Silicon Graphics, $350,000 worth from Apple and some $500,000 in additional hardware and software went into equipping both the set and off-stage control room.
The Ars article is just a summary of this: https://fabiensanglard.net/jurrasic_park_computers/index.html
Decades before we had HomeAssistant, you could hook your IBM PC, Commodore 64, TRS-80, and several other vintage home computers into an X-10 interface and control your devices from your PC.
Our 1996 IBM Aptiva came with the IBM Home Director which was based on the same X-10 hardware and had a nice GUI.
That is really impressive, I always feel nostalgic when specifications, original code, data books and schematics are lost over time.
Then some guys like said : not this time. Nand2mario’s GitHub z386 repository.
Post-video thoughts:
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What is the situation with this on modern Linux? Something like a community edition, or is it only using the Windows version (lower hardware utilization?) via WINE?
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Does modern use make any sense (size, performance, registration) beyond sightseeing? I mainly want live rendering (Godot), so I'm guessing that makes it make less sense.
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Are there any model packs with models like this? Objects (low-poly room decoration etc.), or more particularly the architecture? Textureless is fine for me, vertex color or simple materials works (even if I had to do this myself from a blank model file).
I would've posted to !3dart@lemmy.world but that's dead.
There's a similar video on Animation Master as well: The 90s CGI software that fell through the cracks
From Andrew, of the Andrew's OS Blog:
Today I am (finally) releasing the Virtual OS Museum, which is the world's first multi-platform interactive virtual museum of operating systems and standalone applications, implemented as a Linux VM.
Nearly all well-known OSes and platforms (and many obscure ones) are included in some form, spanning the entire history of stored-program computing from the 1948 Manchester Baby to the present day. This is the result of over 20 years of collecting emulators and VM images; over 1700 VM installations are included, across over 250 platforms, representing nearly 600 distinct OSes.
I have put a lot of effort into making this readily accessible; all OSes and emulators are pre-installed, and a cross-emulator graphical launcher with a snapshot feature to revert VM installations to a working state is included. Shortcuts to run the OS museum VM on Windows, macOS, and Linux are included (and it is possible to run it on pretty much anything that runs QEMU or VirtualBox).
So yesterday I pulled out my old "luggable" IBM 5155 because I wanted to know if I could use it as a Terminal for a terminal.
I have previously successfully connected a Psion 5mx over a null modem to a Raspberry Pie. Figured it would be cool to see if I can get it working on this behemoth as well. I have DOS 3.3 on a 5.25" floppy and another with some supplementary software for DOS 3.3. And wow, not a lot of software included. CTTY won't let me set Baud rate, parity och bit size. So it just freezes, and the CONNECT application doesn't throw up errors either but just sort of is there, regardless of settings.
Anyway will in the future get my self a carrier card for a CF -to-IDE so I can throw DOS 6.6 and PROCOMM on it and see if that gets me anywhere. Unless any of you folks have any tips or scathing criticism on my lack of knowledge of DOS.
So I recently got a steal of a deal on a powermac g4, only because I wanted the Philips CRT monitor for my dreamcast. I have a lot of computers and while I love the g4 (and always loved them when i was little), I don't really need another computer thats not good for much. Its the 860 ish MHz dual ppc, 512 mb ram, 60 GB HDD, has a graphics card. Super drive, and another CD rw drive.
Should I keep or sell? Not sure its worth more than $50 in my area. Most people would throw it in the trash.
Side note, it will only boot in safe mode. Previous owner put 10.5.8. on it. I think it has a bad ram stick.
And yeah. This feels like calling a ps2 retro which is cringe. This thing is still the future far as I'm concerned!

Edit: reset pram/nvram , no fix. Only boots on safe mode. Otherwise I get " you need to restart your computer.."
Crossposted from https://ibbit.at/post/217882 -----
Although Windows 95 stole the show, Windows 3.0 was arguably the first version of Windows that more or less nailed the basic Windows UI concept, with the major 3.1 update being quite recognizable to a modern-day audience. Even better is that you can still install Win3.1 on a modern x86-compatible PC and get some massive improvements along the way, as [Omores] demonstrates in a recent video. The only real gotcha here is that the AMD AM5 system with Asus Prime X670-P mainboard is one of those boards whose UEFI BIOS still has the ‘classic BIOS’ Compatibility Support Module (CSM) option. With that enabled, Win 3.1 installs without further fuss via a USB floppy drive from a stack of ‘backup’ floppies that someone made in the early 90s. [Omores] also tried it with CSMWrap, but with this USB to PS/2 emulation didn’t work. Windows 3.1 supports ‘enhanced mode’ by default, which adds virtual memory and multi-tasking if you have an 80386 CPU or better. To fix crashing on boot and having to use ‘standard mode’ instead, the ahcifix.386 fix for the responsible SATA issue by [PluMGMK] should help, or a separate SATA expansion card. For the video driver the vbesvga.drv by [PluMGMK] was used, to support all VESA BIOS Extensions modes. This driver has improved massively since we last covered it and works great with an RTX 5060 Ti GPU. There’s now even DCI support to enable direct GPU VRAM access for e.g. video playback, with audio also working great with only a few driver-related gotchas.
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