Hopefully I’ve worded the question right.

I was once told (I could never verify if it was true) that a crocs company once almost went bankrupt after they made their crocs practically indestructible. Whilst the story was most likely bullshit, it makes me wonder: if a company can make a product that is practically indestructible, is it ethical for them not to make them indestructible, so people will buy more from them?

The way I look at it is, on one hand, I feel like they should make products to the highest quality if they can so that the consumer has to spend less money and that less is wasted, but at the same time if it leads to the company going bankrupt, what of the workers and their families? So I can’t decide, what do you think?

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[–] 47 points 5 days ago (33 children)

There are companies that went broke by making their product indestructible, a notable example being the maker of the wildly popular Instant Pot. They made a product that just didn't break. This is called planned obsolescence failure and has happened to other companies too.

That being said, making flimsy shit on purpose is shady at best.

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  • [–] 63 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    This is why capitalism is stupid at its core. It doesn't promote anything good. It only promotes greed and enriching the top. Make the shittiest product you possibly can that people will buy, buy out every other maker of product, repopulate the sector with fake brands to give people illusion of choice.

    Oldest trick in the book. And literally not 1 person I know can see through this trickery.

    In capitalism making a long lasting good product is not viable at all, it makes no sense. Who gives a shit if your great grandkid is still using your oven 60 years later, the shareholders dont benefit then. Out of business. Its an idiotic system kept alive only by propaganda.

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  • [–] 40 points 5 days ago (6 children)

    The real reason was private equity

    Private equity made things a lot worse. In 2019, Instant Brands was acquired by Cornell Capital and unceremoniously merged with Corelle Brands, a housewares company that includes Pyrex. An acquisition by a private equity firm brings certain expectations with it—namely: lots and lots of fast growth.

    https://www.bonappetit.com/story/instant-pot-bankrupt

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  • [–] 14 points 5 days ago

    Corelle/Pyrex is its own story of going from the best product to "good enough". Simple point, if you find yourself some old stuff of theirs, hang on to it because you can't find anything comparable anymore. Same can probably be true of other old brands of products. I found an old Whirlpool dryer that I won't ever let go of for the same reason. What will eventually fail on it I can either fix or buy a new, cheap part.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    Right. Like I also hate capitalism as it exists today, but it is definitely possible to make a living making GOOD products. You just can't make billions doing it. Even if the product was LITERALLY indestructible, people will lose them, plus they're always making new people. It's just a lot slower than if you make a shit product people have to keep replacing

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    [–] 10 points 4 days ago

    Is it ethical to do something unethical?

    No

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  • [–] 31 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    Every company does it. It even has a name.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

    No, it isn't ethical.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago

    I think that's a slightly different thing, albeit with a similar outcome depending on intent.

    You can make "indestructible" versions of lots of things, but that doesn't mean they're remotely affordable or even desirable (due to weight or materials used).

    A company deliberately making something bad so it breaks is what you're describing, but a company making something lower quality so it's cheaper isn't necessarily the same.

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    [–] 15 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    Companies are not people. They have no ethics. The only thing that keeps them in check is regulation and market forces.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    People make the decisions at companies and those people should be held accountable for their lack of ethics.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (1 child)

    Yes, I feel we are making the same point. A company is neither ethical or not. The people who work there are.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago

    It's semantics, or a pointless distinction. Companies are composed of the people working there. If those people are doing unethical things then the company is doing unethical things and is therefore unethical.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Imagine you went to a football game and bought a serving fries. They come in a little clay-lined paper dish. The clay lining in that dish resists small amounts of oil for about 30 minutes, but after that time is up, the oil will penetrate through, soaking the dish and possibly staining your clothes.

    The manufacturer could've used a plastic lining instead. It's more resistant for much longer, and is still food-safe at reasonable temperatures. Is the choice of clay over plastic unethical? Or is it reasonable to pick a cheaper, more recyclable material with the assumption that it won't take most people a full 30 minutes to eat their fries?

    Different things have different purposes and need to meet different standards. "Breakable" vs "durable" isn't an objective measurement of quality.

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    [–] 36 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    Think about all the waste that cheap products create. I can buy a cheap pair of work boots twice a year or a good pair every 2/3 years. I believe it's unethical for preying on the poor while also creating more waste.

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  • [–] 32 points 5 days ago* (4 children)

    The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

    This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socio-economic unfairness.

    Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms

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    [–] 8 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    no, of course it’s not. but ethics for the worker and consumer do not exist under capitalism. only for the shareholder.

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  • [–] 21 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    Is it ethical for you as a consumer to buy low quality stuff that you know will break?

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    [–] 3 points 3 days ago

    It's not ethical, it's capitalism and democracy in the name of the lord Money.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    Welcome to end stage capitalism, where the only rule is line go up. Line go up when you use fewer materials. That's why everything is shitty now.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    It's worse than that. They use shitty materials deliberately even when they aren't cheaper to manufacture in order to make the product last less long so you have to re-buy a replacement sooner. It's called "planned obsolescence" and it's egregiously unethical.

    Samsung washing machines, for instance, use the "spider arm" (the bracket connecting the drum to the motor) as a sacrificial anode in order to ensure that the machine will break just out of warranty. Everything else in the machine will be stainless steel and still in pristine condition when the zinc spider arm has corroded to the point of literally cracking into pieces.

    (Yes, this happened to me, and I will never stop warning people away from Samsung because of it.)

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  • [–] 9 points 5 days ago (13 children)

    If everyone built them at the highest quality, then every product would be at the highest price point.

    Each reduction in quality makes that product available to more people who couldn't afford it otherwise.

    Eventually, the only way to put the product in everybody's hands is to make it so cheap that it only works once, if you're lucky.

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    [–] 3 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    You can pay more to get better made things. Like most refrigerators are trash now, you can buy a commercial grade one and it will last like the one you had in the 70-80s but it costs $5,000+ easily and has nothing special about it.

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    [–] 2 points 4 days ago

    planned obselescence is an ongoing thing, they figured if they make a very long lasting product, they wont be returning customers, what better way to use shrinkflation,chepflation every 2-5 years. things like fridges and microwaves often is replaced every 2 years.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    I don't believe so.

    If every product was made with the highest standards of materials and craft, then all of the products would be more expensive. A competitive free market is meant to allow a wider variety of consumers access to products that suit their individual needs, and price is a huge part of those needs.

    I do think it's unethical to charge too much for products that aren't well made and that it's a failing of capitalism that it's not just allowed, but encouraged.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago

    The lie of free market is in the assumption of perfect knowledge. In order for the free market to work as intended (self regulate), the consumer is supposed to have the perfect knowledge of the product, its internal quality, all available alternatives and their respective prices. In reality, absolutely no consumer can possibly have the necessary breadth of knowledge about each and every product they buy and service they use, so the market winners are the ones with the best marketing and/or lowest prices.

    And that is why nothing seems to last anymore.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago

    Just engineering something to be garbage for no other reason than so that people will buy more is unethical. That said, there are always trade offs and durability has to be weighed against other priorities.

    For example, cars used to have much bigger bumpers which were expected to protect against damage in low speed impacts. Those went away because the requirements changed, the low speed crash test was out, and fuel efficiency requirements were in.

    Or there's incandescent bulbs. They were ubiquitous for over a century, and yet they were constantly burning out and changing them was just a fact of life. Manufacturers could have easily made a more robust filament so the bulb would last longer, but doing so would have dramatically decreased the output of the bulb.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    You should read about planned obsolescence.

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    [–] 7 points 5 days ago

    Yes, particularly if you're the company creating the "In case of emergency, break glass" boxes.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    It is unethical. If a company made a product so good it went bankrupt, there should be guardrails to ensure the workers and their families be rightfully compensated for their contribution to the better of society.

    We're drowning in waste because of this mentality of selling things no matter what.

    There should be incentives to make great things, there shouldn't be incentives to be a great stealer.

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    I think it's okay to have different levels of quality at different price points so people can have options that fit their budget. A personal anecdote is measuring spoons. When I was young and just starting out, I just bought the cheapest set that would get the job done for a while. They were simply rounded plastic and the markings quickly started to wear off. Years later, when I was a bit more settled down, I decided to splurge on some nice stainless steel spoons in a rectangular shape that lets them fit inside spice jars better.

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