To a few philosophers, particularly the hardcore rationalists, Nietzsche's struggle for self-ownership as meaning was, in modern terms, a truckload of copium
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hedonistic meaningless living
As if a life embedded in asceticism was supposed to be any more meaningful
Right! I'm glad to see someone thinking critically about what hedonism to fundamentslly means, rather than relying on the more pejorative usage of the term.
I realised once that, even tho I was a drug free tee totaller who didn't party or have sex much, I was still a hedonistic at that time because I played videogames as much as possible.
What would be considered hedonistic back then? Talking a walk in the woods and climbing mountains for pleasure?
In the text it means any choice you make that sacrifices long term benefits for instant gratification. Nietzsche was way into promoting things that give you pleasure, just not at the cost of your health and prosperity
Obviously Hedonic Philosophy isn't about that either but he wasn't thinking of hedonism as a philosophy, he was describing a problem humans have with how we make choices
Unironically, yes maybe. If it is seen as avoiding your responsibilities, and doesn't contribute to some area of society (but rather sees-to the "worship" of you yourself) then it is hedonistic
Edit: other guy said it better than me
Having kids (one of whom is special needs) plucked me out of the nihilism well that I was drowning in. I’m so thankful for them. Now, I don’t even have time to think or contemplate life. lol
If you accept that caring for the wellbeing of your kids is inherently meaningful then you must also accept there is meaning inherent in taking care of your own self :3
only while the kids exist as you forced them into existence thereby incurring the responsibility
for a thought experiment, imagine you could see your entire life and decide to be born or not based in your mind at the point of death
what would be the point of living a ‘bad’ life?
I would personally have chosen No, and it's a big reason why I'm not going to have a kid. Very grateful that my wife agrees
only while the kids exist as you forced them into existence
Many parents have the same realization about their adopted children. You could argue that both types of parents are delusional but the causality isn’t relevant
imagine you could see your entire life
The capacity for imagining your whole life presupposes that you have already begun living, silly :3 but okay. Why would this primordial spirit be interested in life at all if it’s optional? Is living your life inherently worth considering, or something?
Nihilists can have, and love and care for, children.
It's all about making your own meaning, and I imagine having kids is one way a lot of people do that.
First time? - Epicuros
Paganism is good though. Praise wilderness!
"That's Cute." -Machiavelli
Ooh. Very stigmatized ethos surrounding that one. Guess I need to find out what the heck happened there
The short version is that Machiavelli is a rather profound Stoic philosopher, but everyone misses that in a lot of his work he is being slightly sarcastic to throw the "powers that be" off the scent that he was criticizing them. When you hear how he suggests that "Princes should be feared rather than respected." he actually calling out the despots of his day. It's kind of how Stephen Colbert portrayed a right wing pundit on "The Colbert Report" as a way of satirizing right-wing pundits.
Oh, okay. Well with that summary I'm at least interested in reading more and trying to see if I can parse the satire. Thanks for pointing me in that direction
Edit: Jesus this is like way obvious after you read how his career in state politics ended. But we named a dark triad psychological trait after him. That's so dirty
not a problem. Overly Sarcastic Productions has a wonderful series on YouTube for those looking to get into Machiavelli, and other stoic philosophers.
He should have tried warning people not to look into the abyss or something.
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach you 'bout the raising of the wrist. (Socrates himself was permanently pissed).
Spitting fire!
This also skips on how his sister edited his yet-unpublished works after his death, to include her German ultranationalist and antisemitic views, while he was opposed to them.
A kinda similar situation to that of Kafka, wherein Max Brod, who was supposed to burn all of Kafka's manuscripts, instead e.g. rearranged the chapters of ‘The Trial’ for no good reason, such that it probably reads way more surrealistically. I've recently listened to some kinda restored edition that attempts to put back the intended order, and while it's still a mess at times, the happenings are pretty understandable.
I always found his frantic fear of nihilism to be a little adolescent, like "how could humanity possibly survive the death of God? How will we live a life without inherent existential or moral purpose?" You just do, Freddy.
Yet here we are, celebrating people whose moral purpose is nonexistent at best and usually completely evil.
There is a quote from Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits that I think of every time this comes up.
“You can lie to yourself, say that you never had a choice, that you weren’t cut out for this. But deep down you’ll know. You’ll know that humans aren’t cut out for anything. We cut ourselves out. Slowly, with a rusty knife. Because otherwise, here’s what’s going to happen: you’re going to die and you’re going to stand at the gates of judgment and you’re going to ask God what was the meaning of it all, and God will say, ‘I created the universe, you little shit. It was up to you to give it meaning.’”
“You really think God uses that kind of language?”
“Yes.”
Yeah and Kierkegaard already solved this decades before him, in exactly the way you describe (although he didn't personally think it was possible).
my take on life is that yeah it doesn’t have inherent meaning, but you don’t need a meaning for everything you do. you can just enjoy being alive despite the meaninglessness, it actually gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever you want to do for the sake of it.
for the morals: just don’t bring in needless suffering, nobody choose to be here and nobody wants to suffer, the only thing we can do is to make the existing lives better
Some author I read said that nihilism can only be temporary and then natural evolution will be towards stoicism/pragmatism. Later she argued that pragmatism isn't so awesome either, but no concrete arguments were put forward. Quiet pragmatic


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