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xkcd #3279: Main Span (thelemmy.club)
submitted 3 days ago by xkcdbot@lemmy.world to c/xkcd@lemmy.world

xkcd #3279: Main Span

Title text:

Wind stress? Don't be silly. When has wind stress ever been a problem for a suspension bridge?

Transcript:

Transcript will show once it’s been added to explainxkcd.com

Source: https://xkcd.com/3279/

explainxkcd for #3279

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[-] grue@lemmy.world 98 points 3 days ago
[-] huquad@lemmy.ml 30 points 3 days ago

Proof engineers want us to have fun, but silly government won't let them

[-] Mok98@feddit.it 35 points 3 days ago

Ah yes the ol' Tacoma wibbly wobbly

[-] ClockworkOtter@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

I heard that's going to be the next episode of WTYPP

[-] e8d79@discuss.tchncs.de 42 points 3 days ago

Looks like Randall has been playing some Poly Bridge.

[-] HappyCatLuvs_U@lemmy.world 31 points 3 days ago

So to keep the balloon filled and maintained, I'm thinking we get a low paid part-time worker. They'll have to be on call for emergency needs of course so open availability.

And to make sure they do the job right, perchance an underfunded, understaffed regulation and inspection system?

[-] mossy_@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago

we might as well fire the regulatory committee, we haven't had issues with collapsing bridges in 50 years!

[-] infeeeee@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 days ago

31 people went to jail for a bridge collapsed in Italy in 2018, they were sentenced last month: https://www.dezeen.com/2026/07/17/ponte-morandi-bridge-collapse-sentence/

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago

You got upper management written all over you, thank you for your shareholder value generation talents.

[-] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 days ago

We're running low on helium, hydrogen ok with you?

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 days ago

We have stakeholders that could help produce a stronger synergy so NatGas on some at least. Can we mix them?

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 5 points 3 days ago

Actually, yes. I think we should be looking more at using hydrogen as a lifting gas, helium is too precious to squander on balloons. Its flammability can be mitigated in a variety of ways, Hindenburg was badly designed as a hydrogen airship (it was originally meant to use helium).

[-] drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 days ago

Its flammability can be mitigated in a variety of ways

That sounds interesting to me, what are those ways?

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 8 points 3 days ago

Good ventilation is the main one I'm aware of. Hydrogen is only flammable when there's a particular range of mixture with oxygen. If it's too dilute then it won't burn, and the same in the other direction with not enough oxygen mixed inside the hydrogen. So a leak that goes straight into the outside air is not really super dangerous, the hydrogen shoots up and away and quickly dilutes to non-flammability.

In Hindenburg's case there were multiple internal gas bladders contained by the aerodynamic outer envelope, held in place with frames and with walkways and other gaps between, so there were a lot of spaces for a mixture of air and hydrogen to accumulate and reach the right mix to burn. They had no way to reliably detect that this was happening, back then they didn't have sensors and relied on crewmen literally walking around listening for hissing sounds or "shimmering" air where gas of different densities were mixing. Since Hindenburg was originally intended to use helium lifting gas it wouldn't have been a problem, but switching to hydrogen should have caused a complete redesign to eliminate these internal spaces and ventilate better. And in a modern airship sprinkle the thing with sensors so you can immediately know if there's a leak.

The actual ignition of the Hindenburg is thought to have been due to a static discharge spark. Hindenburg's outer skin was somewhat insulated from its inner framework and the air and ship were charged due to a thunderstorm that had recently passed by. When the crew dropped ropes to the ground this grounded the inner framework and caused sparks between the outer envelope and the framework as it tried to dump its charge into the ground as well. Again not a problem for a helium airship, but something that should have been subject to a redesign for a hydrogen one. Make sure the whole ship is properly grounded and then there won't be charge differences to cause sparks inside it.

Note that there's a theory that was proposed a while back that Hindenburg's outer envelope was super flammable in its own right and was the actual source of most of the fire. It was made of cotton painted with cellulose acetate butyrate along with iron oxide and fine aluminum powder - similar in composition to thermite or solid rocket fuel. But tests were done with recreations of the material and although it was indeed flammable it didn't burn anywhere near fast enough to account for the speed with which the Hindenburg was destroyed. Probably still something to avoid with modern materials, though. Don't make your hydrogen airship out of stuff that could catch fire.

[-] skibidi@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Hydrogen has one of the widest explosive ranges of all fuels. It will burn in air anywhere between 4% and 75% hydrogen by volume.

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 3 points 2 days ago

Yes, but nevertheless there are limits. As I said. It's not going to explode the moment a molecule gets on the wrong side of the envelope. Proper ventilation can keep the concentration outside that range. Note how even though the Hindenburg was abysmally designed from a safety standpoint it still lasted a long time before anything set it off.

[-] bajabound@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

We could mix it with oxygen, which is plentiful, at a ratio of around 4:1.

[-] yucandu@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Why not get a worker from a country so poor that they'll do anything to avoid being sent back, even let you exploit them illegally?

[-] Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 20 points 3 days ago

Just build the bridge on the moon instead. The lower gravity really helps with the main span.

Just tether the middle to the moon instead of the balloon.

[-] Tango@piefed.ca 11 points 3 days ago

Good ol' geostationary moon.

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago
[-] WhyIHateTheInternet@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

I don't even want to give any of this until Monday.

[-] Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 days ago

Who needs a space elevator when you might as well use the same tech to beat bridge records.

[-] nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

At 99°C (210°F) the lift power of hot air balloon is 0.25 kg per m³. Pillars supporting a four kilometre long suspension bridge section are under 200 MN vertical load, or 20 million kg. The air balloon would have to be 80 million m³ large, or 534 m (⅓mi) in diameter.

[-] Burninator05@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

So you're saying its possible.

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 days ago

Doesn't even sound that unrealistic to be honest.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Does that mass include the containment and support structure for the balloon itself?

[-] nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf 1 points 2 days ago

Surface area is 895844 m², Dycron weights 4 ounces per sailsmakers yard, or 0.171 kg per m². 153458 kg, so additional 38365 m³ required, supports should also be relatively light. Quite negligible compared to, for instance, cars weight.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

When has wind stress ever been a problem for a suspension bridge?

On the next WTYP!

[-] W3dd1e@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago

Brb I gotta try something in Poly Bridge.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 9 points 3 days ago

I'm surprised they didn't do the math for a geosynchronous orbital support

[-] Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 2 points 2 days ago

Don’t let Salvini see this meme

[-] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

I'd just use magnets

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Oh the humanity!

this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2026
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