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"Sometimes the best negotiation isn't about the salary at all" (thelemmy.club)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/linkedinlunatics@sh.itjust.works
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[–] [S] 142 points 3 months ago (32 children)

And of course:

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  • [–] 65 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    It's that em-dash at the end that really solidified it for me. Was kinda on the fence most of the way through.

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  • [–] 40 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    My wife is a professional writer and uses em dash a lot, usually as --, including in her casual messages, as it's common for her to use.

    It's the formatting style of the whole thing that sounds AI to me. "Honestly" phrases really jumps out at me now, as well as the "But..." fragments. Not that they're bad, hell, I type out things that way too. But for it to be all together, it sounds AI after you've seen it a lot.

    The em dash is fine here, emphasizing the final point. Although I would have probably used a comma myself for a post and not a formal manuscript.

    Funny thing is, you can get AI to reduce a lot of these tells with a decent system prompt and staging of the writing process. So I'm surprised we're still seeing it a lot and it hasn't been weaned out of the latest versions.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    It's really hard to get rid of things caused by systematic bias in the training data.

    After inhaling the entire internet, LLMs started being trained on publically available books.
    And due to copyright, those were older ones from a time when em-dashes were used more.
    The training results were tested by humans, which needed to be cheap, but also English language natives.
    So they used workers in English-speaking African countries. Where the English taught in school is also more traditional with a focus on older literature, so the answers coming from the old literature were rated higher by the testers.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    The use of "--" is interesting, I use dashes to convey pacing constantly because I type as I speak, and so punctuation to me is largely about trying to write the delivery I want the reader to percieve, and I always just use "-" knowing it's incorrect, but I don't exactly wanna make myself seem even more like ai by switching lol

    I may try using "--", thanks for sharing that!

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I actually used to do the same thing with the -, and by em dash becoming a thing I dived into the usage and history of it all, including ; and en dash. And now I'm using - less. But I don't use em dash more, just tend to throw a comma in.

    Another weird one I learned. em dash spacing. The spacing AI tends to use is not preferred by publishers now, but is more AP style, perhaps picking it up from when it was more popular to have space between the letters. Europe tends to prefer spacing but with a en dash (and I kind of like how that looks too, but it doesn't fly if you publish in the US).

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Wait, so what spacing is generally preferred for the em dash? Thats interesting, I never formally learned how to use one so I'm curious (I've not been to college, I have no idea if its part of typical higher education curriculum if you take any english courses)

    I abuse the fuck out of commas so I reach for dashes or ; when I want a longer pause that isn't a logical end point for a thought. But a semicolon feels somehow a bit more formal to me, so I use it less for general online chatting

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    My other half writes a lot of formal documentation as part of her work. She uses bullet lists and em-dashes a lot, and her work comes up as >90% AI. Even the stuff she wrote a decade ago. A while back, she took one of her documents and gave it to ChatGPT and said, "make this pass an AI test" and it went down to about 20% but it was no longer the house style.

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  • [–] 44 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Bruh, I'm calling shenanigans on this tool. Yes, post is probably ai, but there is no tool that can accurately tell ai text from human text. "The most accurate ai detector" is like me calling a stick "the most accurate god detector". It's a meaningless distinction when the detection isn't possible to do accurately.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    that batman image,, uhh,,, recite it from memory,,, batman says "this is the tool of the enemy, we shall not use it" or something,,, idk,,,
    (...why?? does lemmy collapse the commas into one??? eww
    and uses the unicode ellipsis??? ugh
    tip: be generous with backslashes! if it is not what you typed, then do not sit there and take it! defend yourself with the slashes!! ! !!)

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    • [–] 60 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    When sentences begin with an inflecting "Honestly?", I am immediately on guard to completely ignore what comes next, because it is usually a steaming pile of AI crap.

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    • [–] 46 points 3 months ago

    There is something to it, but ya can't just mash two half truths together to make a full truth.

    A clear vision of what I can expect and what I am going to be doing where I work, makes a big difference. It can outweigh some other concerns if I see that I can avoid, compensate for, or be allowed to fix them.

    But if the salary is too low, I am not fucking joking: I am bringing skills and they have value. If anything, a talk about how I fit the role should make that clearer to you, the employer.

    I guess if the "role talk" convinced me that it is a bullshit job that I am actually supposed to half-ass and coast, leaving me room to take on side jobs and do job hunting during paid hours: Sure. Let's sign.

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    [–] 30 points 3 months ago*

    I WILL DO ANYTHING TO PROTECT MY CORPORATE OVERLORDS FROM LOSING MONEY ON HUMAN PEOPLE

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    [–] 25 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Honestly, don't really see a problem with a negotiation ending up like that, it might clear up the workload or getting specific vacation other accommodations through, making the compensation worth it.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I went through a negotiation where they were very stingy on vacation time, and after several rounds of back and forth, they offered slightly higher pay, and tried to throw other minor benefits. I went somewhere else. 2 weeks starting is dumb. I typically take 4-5 a year and that feels small some days.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Here in Sweden you have a legal right to take four weeks in a row during the summer months.

    Now there are some conditions.

    1. You have to have enough days earned.
    2. Your employer may direct you when to take the vacation during the summer months, but has to communicate that well in advance.

    You don't have to exercise this right, but your employer can't outright deny it.

    Typically people earn enough vacation time to take four weeks during summer, one week during christmas and a random week in the autum.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    I mean, if we negotiate WFH that's some benefit worth money. Workload shouldnt matter if its full time i drop the pen after 40h. I think a person accepting a lowball offer will go on looking and you onboard for nothing.

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    • [–] 20 points 3 months ago

    "Write me an inspirational Linkedin story about how job candidates should accept lower wages"

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    [–] 10 points 3 months ago

    They always do that song and dance anyways, it's not like they wait til the last minute. Got that from my former job, and I just patiently waited til it clicked and they skipped : "they have a very thorough test system, and the work ambience is really good, and ... Oh yes you have already worked there." Yes I worked on their shitty tests and left because the ambiance was bad (one reason in many, this offering is fir another team, where the ambience is only morose).

    But it's AI slop, probably with a prompt "the salary is not negotiable" in it so ...

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    [–] 10 points 3 months ago

    This was written by an LLM. Probably chatgpt.

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    [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    “You will work for what we tell you to work for. Fuck you.”

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    [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    In principle this is kind of how negotiations work.

    Although, obviously it didn't needed to be phrased like this and posted to linked in.

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    [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    And then OOP came hard.

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