I'm sceptical about independence movements in general. Overwhelming majority of newly independent countries go absurdly nationalistic and anticommunist. The only ones that turned out to be at least acceptable were explicitly leftist from the beginning.

apparently the anarchists are supporting independence, maybe they figure they can take it over afterward lol. but beyond that, i think my desire to see the Francoist monarchy & sucdem cowards eat shit is greater than some bourgeoisie getting some wish fulfillment. at the very least it'd be republic

"Every people deserves the right to self-determination"

Here's the thing: this isn't really true, is it? There isn't really a universal right to "self determination", if there was we'd have to acknowledge the right of those successionist yahoos who want to true some random county in Montana into AnCapistan to legalize child marriage. We recognize people should be ruled by a government that represents them, and in examples like colonialism that right is being blatantly violated, but that doesn't mean every group of 10 or more people who are unhappy with their government has some universal right to form their own little country. If we did the whole world would be a patchwork of micro-nations the size of Rhode Island.

Every people deserves the right to self-determination

I’ll support a nationalist struggle if it directly helps the left but I feel like anything in the white/european sphere outside of the territory wanting to do a USSR 2 should just be ignored. Like how does an independent Catalonia get us communism? It’s just going to be another state in the EU, maybe left leaning but it will still be capitalist. Look at Ireland, the IRA is fucking dead, even if they got back north Ireland at this point it wouldn’t fucking matter as it’s just libs running it.

I think that independence would entail a great economic recession, seeing how companies relocated to other parts of Spain leading up to the (shitty and unserious) referendum. The EU said they wouldn't allow them to use the Euro if they got the independence IIRC. Even if they got it on favorable conditions, it wouldn't really make a substantial difference, they could be "bullied" by Spain as much as they are now, but with more symbolic sovereignty, maybe? Spain has the bigger companies and Catalonia would most likely be forced to trade with those, while critical industries like energy, telecomms and transport are private, so the ownership probably wouldn't be transferred.

I wouldn't take Catalonian independence too seriously, although I think some liberties should be granted. The concerning part is conservatives who are frothing at the mouth at the weakest independence effort, calling it "Spain's doom" or whatever tf, and at absolving some politicians who were initially accused of rebellion (as if they were armed) and finally charged with sedition, despite there not being much violence apart from some protests. They also disregard how ~50% voted for independentist parties on the elections leading to the referendum, wanting to sweep those people under the rug, as if that could be equated to solving the problem.

As someone who grew up in a exclusively Spanish-speaking region, I get how these reactionaries come to be. They think Catalonia/Euskadi/Galicia is just another region and "is Spain and therefore they must speak Spanish" (which the constitution says), completely unaware of those regions' history and context. I would dare say the majority of parents who want their children being taught in Spanish (something right wingers are very loud about, as all classes are given in Catalan/Euskera/Galician) are just (Spanish) immigrants. Most people there are born speaking their language and die speaking their language, just like the Spanish-speaking regions do with Spanish. Their languages were outright banned for centuries since 1715. No wonder lots of anarchists were Catalonian and Basque. Never mind the obvious asymmetry of having to learn a completely external language (external to the community, specially in reference to rural areas, which are the most pro-independence). Though I don't think this is a pressing issue, I still believe better policy should be implemented, either Switzerland's or Canada's way. Of course, there are other factors to the respective national identities, but to me it seems the most visible.

On the other hand, there's also that petty-bourgeois "we are paying for the rest of the country" line of thought. Again, the largest independentist party by far is right-wing. This may have been exacerbated by the economic crisis, austerity politics post-2008 and the general hostility coming from the right-wing government, but don't take my word for it.

I admit, I'm not an expert in the subject, so feel free to correct or dismiss me.

nationalism bad, big nationalism worse than small nationalism. everyone secede from everyone and we all get a vote in the UN.

prefer the catalhoyuk independence movement

Basque independence movement has better vibes, no I will not elaborate

Hot take but Catalonian isn't even a dialect, it looks like it's just an accent. If you go on catalunyan wikipedia it is identical to spanish with just minor spelling differences (that they seem to forget to use occassionally). Like if Catalunyan is a language then New Yorker and Bostonite are languages.

I think the class character of a movement informs whether it should be supported, and in this case Catalan independence is mostly rich people trying to break away to pay fewer taxes and thus shouldn't be supported. Imagine if you allowed this type of secession on principal every single time it came up: large chunks of Europe would be sectioned off from the rest and turned into ghettos while the rich parts continue to siphon wealth from them and the rest of the world in an intensified version of the modern system of unequal exchange. Not exactly an improvement unless you're an accelerationist.

It's different from supporting a problematic nationalist movement against imperialism, ie Iran or Russia or Palestine. Even if the people of those countries have fully developed class consciousness, fat lot of good it would do them if they were fully under the thumb of a much more powerful country. The people of Spain are not under any such imperialist thumb, and thus only their working class movements should be supported.

Support because fuck Europe, let those bastards deal with secessionist movements trying to emulate it for the next fifty years. Nice bit of irony after forcibly colonizing the rest of the world.

However if I lived in Europe I probably would not support it lol

The less Spain the better