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[–] 115 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Norwegians put less emphasis on competition and specialisation in their youth sports – scores are not recorded in team sports matches featuring children under 12 – and more importance on fun.

What an absolutely amazing idea. πŸ‘ πŸ˜€

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  • [–] 56 points 7 months ago (19 children)

    That's a completely irrelevant metric though, India (1.47bn) got no medals at all.

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  • [–] 74 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    It isn't irrelevant at all, obviously population size is one of the most important variables when it comes to gold medals, another one is availability of winter sports, another is national wealth and investment in sports & athletes.

    It's a good thing that Nazi USA didn't top the table. It is a disgrace that Israel was allowed to compete. The IOC is complicit with genocide.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    The article ignores every other factor and purely focuses on population size, economics will always defeat population size when it comes to finding and developing elite athletes.

    And please can we go just five minutes without bringing nazis and genocide into every conversation, it's exhausting.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago

    And please can we go just five minutes without bringing nazis and genocide into every conversation, it's exhausting.

    imagine howeit is for the victims of said nazis and mass murderers… sorry it cramps your style

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    Norway (GDP: $480,000 - 550,000; PPP: $510,000 - 620,000) beats US (GDP: $28,750,000 - 31,820,000; PPP: $25,680,000 - 31,820,000)

    Norway (GDP per capita: $86,700 - 96,600; PPP per capita: $91,100 - 109,500) beats US (GDP per capita: $84,800 - 92,800; PPP per capita: $75,500 - 92,900)

    18 gold and 41 total versus 12 gold and 33 total.

    Norway (1 gold for $5,100 per capita) beats US (1 gold for $7,400 per capita).

    Is that better? Or does that make silly confusing headlines for the average person?

    Unfortunately Nazis and genocide are a reality of life today, well done you if you can insulate yourself in a bubble to ignore it but that won't last long if they're allowed to proliferate.

    They use propaganda to push the narrative that the US is the best at everything, since about as long as anyone alive can remember. I think we can excuse The Guardian doing the same in the opposite direction to push the narrative that they're not the best, and that in fact a social democratic country is better.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    can we go just five minutes without bringing nazis and genocide into every conversation, it’s exhausting.

    If you don't like it, do something about it. It's good that it makes you uncomfortable. That's a message from your conscience, maybe you could act on it.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It would be interesting to actually do the math regarding how much of a predictor population size is.

    I'd guess that beyond a relatively low saturation level of a few millions you get enough people with raw talent in each given population that the other factors you listed (funding, methods, support structures, etc.) make the actual difference

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    According to this study: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13436

    Population size is of second tier importance behind economic factors, and the effect isn't linear, but an "inverted u" where tiny nations suffer, mid-size to larger nations do better but very large countries fall off due to lack of resources to continually scale investment into ever larger talent pools.

    The winter Olympics throws the economic needs of elite sport into sharp focus because unlike athletics, most winter sports require more money for equipment, facilities, training etc to develop high end athletes, poorer countries punch above their weight in things like long-distance running where it's relatively cheap to train an athlete compared to alpine skiing or ice hockey. Hence why the winter Olympics is dominated by wealthy countries almost all of which are either in Europe, North America or China/Korea/Japan.

    The only outliers to that are Brazil who had a downhill skier who competed his whole career for Norway before retiring and deciding to compete again under a different flag and Kazakhstan who (no disrespect to his performance) won because the favourites all unexpectedly messed up.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago*

    All the countries mentioned in the article that have 10+ times bigger populations, like USA, Canada, Italy Germany, have about equal winter sport opportunities, economies and traditions to Norway.
    So it is absolutely an impressive feat by Norway to take home the most gold medals when they are vastly outnumbered by several other countries.
    Obviously countries that have no winter sport traditions, and have little or no opportunity for winter sport are not relevant to this comparison.

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    [–] 44 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Doesn't that happen at every Winter Olympics?

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Aren’t these just modes of everyday transportation to and from work and school for the Norwegian folks?

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  • [–] 42 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The winners didn't even try to compete. They were just there by pure accident and wanted to get home again

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    If you take Europe as a continent, it beats the USA handily. To make it comparable, the US athletes should be grouped by state. They'd do even worse.

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  • [–] 45 points 7 months ago

    To be fair, Europe gets a bit overrepresented in that regard because it can send loads of athletes as separate countries. To take the men's mass start speed skating final as an example, ten of the sixteen competitors were from the EU, but it would only be allowed to send two as a single country

    On the other hand, Norway alone beat everyone of course, and European countries are eight of the top ten on the medal table

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    But the US only completed as one country in each discipline while each country in Europe has the chance to earn a medal for 'Europe'. To make it comparable, either

    1. each US state would have needed to field their own team and you average over the number of teams or

    2. EU and the US would have needed to compete with one team each per competition

    that said, Europe is indeed very successful at the Olympics per capita

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago*

    If you look at the statistics for medals per country, they’re quite strongly correlated with numbers of athletes sent. This makes sense because a given athlete can only win 1 medal in 1 event and if you don’t send an athlete to an event you have no chance to win a medal.

    This is also the main reason for the host country medal bump: host country’s athletes automatically qualify for a lot of spots in the events. This means they can send more athletes than they otherwise would, so they win more medals than usual.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    They have a fantastic, data driven training in all their sports. They rock Triathlon, no surprise that they also do well in the Olympics. Very earned, those people work hard for their success

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Norway also target sports that have large numbers of available medals that they also have a historic affinity with ie cross country skiing (36 medals total, 14 won), biathlon (33 total, 11 won), ski jump (19 total, 5 won).

    Norway is also incredibly wealthy and invests very heavily in its winter Olympic athletes where USA, obviously dramatically richer has to spread its resources across winter Olympics, summer Olympics and a whole host of sports that aren't even in the Olympics.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    We do well in a bunch of the summer olympic sports as well though. We are on the podium in Handball, track and field, Beach volleyball, rowing, etc. Not dominating like in the winter olympics. But very decent per capita there as well. So we aren't targeting winter olympics at all. We just like sports.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Maybe I should rephrase, Norway's sports development system works on a broad spectrum approach based on sports that have universal availability and appeal within the country. All the sports you mentioned, and cross-country skiing, biathlon, ski jump etc don't require dedicated specialist facilities like ice hockey does for example.

    That philosophy also happens to align very nicely with a natural affinity for, and infrastructure to develop top end talent in for those winter sports I mentioned.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    So proud to see the EU flag flying high next to the Italian and Greek flags! Can't wait for France to host it next, you know they're gonna dial it up to 11.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    As we learned in Operation Barbarossa, snow hates fascists.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    I don't like Olympic bean counting.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I always disliked this "which country got the most medals" bullshit. The US media does it every Olympic games, and I think it's gross.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Norwegians have much easier access to ski resorts than most Americans. In fact, many Americans who want to compete move to places like Colorado and California to have reasonable access. From a quick search, Oslo has similar access to ski resorts as Denver. If I had to guess, though, they're less expensive and more easily accessed by public transit.

    Winter sports are also just more popular in Norway. I think this is for pretty obvious climatologial and historic reasons.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Did you see the Norwegian skiers? They are godlike. We had nothing in those events.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    This is the first time I've actually seen an estimate of the population size of Norway and I'm actually shocked there are so few Norwegians. I figured pretty much Scandinavian countries had a population of at least the Netherlands. That said I was aware that Denmark was smaller in population but that Norway has about Denmarks population is news to me.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Sweden is the big one, while Norway, Denmark and Finland are about the same.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah and even Sweden is still only about two thirds of the Netherlands. I'm aware the Netherlands is very densely populated, but these Scandinavian countries are huge compared to the Netherlands, maybe with the exception of Denmark which is similar in size.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    For total medals in the winter Olympics, it's Norway first, Canada second, USA third.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Team Europe yea!!!!!!

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  • [+] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)
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