cross-posted from: https://mander.xyz/post/46886810

The American president has invited Canada to become his country's "51st state," an idea that has infuriated most of Canada's 40 million citizens.

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Hence this suggestion: Why not expand the EU to include Canada? Is that so far-fetched an idea? In any case, Canadians have actually considered the question themselves. In February 2025, a survey conducted by Abacus Data on a sample of 1,500 people found that 44% of those polled supported the idea, compared to 34% who opposed it. Better the 28th EU country than the 51st US state!

One might object: Canada is not European, as required for EU membership by Article 49 of the EU Treaty. But what does "European" actually mean? The word cannot be understood in a strictly geographic sense, or Cyprus, closer to Asia, would not be part of the EU. So the term must be understood in a cultural sense.

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As [Canadian Prime Minister Mark] Carney said in Paris, in March: Thanks to its French and British roots, Canada is "the most European of non-European countries." He speaks from experience, having served as governor of the Bank of England (a post that is assigned based on merit, not nationality). Culturally and ideologically, Canada is close to European democracies: It shares the same belief in the welfare state, the same commitment to multilateralism and the same rejection of the death penalty or uncontrolled firearms.

Moreover, Canada is a Commonwealth monarchy that shares a king with the United Kingdom.

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Even short of a formal application, it would be wiser for Ottawa to strengthen its ties with European democracies rather than with the Chinese regime. The temptation is there: Just before heading to Davos, Carney signed an agreement with Beijing to lower tariffs on electric vehicles imported from China.

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[–] 92 points 8 months ago (1 child)

They aren’t comparable. One is the prospect of a forced marriage, the other is being asked to join a semi functional study group.

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  • [–] 44 points 8 months ago

    Forced marriage to a violent, abusive bully, vs study group with a disorganized slightly autistic nerd who's really smart. I don't want to spoil the endings, but I think we should all be able to figure out which one is going to have a positive impact on our lives and which one's going to turn us into a domestic violence statistic.

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  • [–] 50 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I'm already jealous of Canadians, to give them passport free travel and the option to move anywhere in Europe.... fuuuuck me

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    [–] 46 points 8 months ago
    [–] 27 points 8 months ago (19 children)

    Quick fun fact: Morocco considers itself European in a geographical sense, or at least they once did and applied for membership.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    I don't think Morocco is super European culturally though. There are values they very much disagree with most Europeans on, such as LGBTQ rights.

    I have no issue with Morocco as a trade partner, or easy travel between Morocco and the EU, but I don't think we'd like the vibes they'd bring to the European Parliament, etc.

    There's something to be gained from diversity of course, but I do think their society's values are a bit too different from most of ours.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Well, since no one else considered them to be geographially European it is of little importance. But culture wise? Definitely not if you ask me. I see better chances for Turkey after some minor (read: major) shifts in politics.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    Honestly, geographically I can see how they'd consider to be almost European. The strait of Gibraltar isn't that wide, it's a shorter distance for them to cross to Europe than it is for me to cross to Finland from Estonia!

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    Don't take this badly but generally when people spout that "their society's values are different from ours" about how countries like Morocco and Turkey wouldn't be a fit for the EU what they really mean is "they're Muslims".

    You haven't see much of Europe if you think LGBTQ rights are looked at similarly all over.

    My own native Portugal used to be pretty homophobic 30 years ago and there are still plenty of people around who think like that even though the country's culture tends towards perceptiveness rather than judgement.

    Or just go to Hungary outside a main city and ask people what they think about Transexuality.

    Don't confuse Northern Europe and Scandinavia with most of Europe.

    Frankly whenever I look at a country like Turkey or Morocco I mainly see my own country, Greece or even Spain 50 or 60 years ago, with pretty similar values - though a different main religion - and average levels of education. Pretty backwards by today's standards, but one can hardly claim Portugal, Greece and Spain weren't European back then.

    Looking at my own country I would say universal education is what made most of the difference in those things you seem to think are "European values".

    The main problem with Morocco is as others pointed out it not being properly Democratic, the whole problem of Western Sahara and its self-determination, the huge wealth-imbalance between it and the EU (read: fear of mass immigration from there) and European Islamophobes (who are not just the European far-right).

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    [–] 21 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Personally, as a European, I would be pro this happening if Canada wants to join and the EU is willing to let them join.

    I get that geographically it wouldn't make much sense, but culture is also important. Geographically, Belarus for example should join the EU instead of Canada, but I think most of us can agree that Belarus should not.

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    [+] 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)
  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    The American president has invited Canada to become his country's "51st state,"

    Not invited.

    He threatened to annex Canada.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (32 children)

    Meanwhile USA east and west coast are looking into joining Canada (and EU?) while Trump is looking into convincing Canada's oil producing provinces to join becoming states.

    People wanted change. They're going to get it. Not the one they voted for probably.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (31 children)

    Any US state that wanted to join Canada would have to reckon with the "guns" thing. Even states that align with Canada in most ways still have a lot of gun nuts, even left-leaning gun nuts. Meanwhile, Canada has slowly been tightening already fairly restrictive gun laws. One glance across the border makes Canadians convinced that guns just escalate problems, they don't solve them.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Canada is an independent country, thank you.

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    [–] 15 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    I don't think Canada joining the EU is really realistic. It's not about geography, it's mostly regulation.

    For example, all EU countries meet the "European standard EN 50075:1990", which is about electrical plugs. Every device in Europe is compatible with that plug, and every plug meets that standard. Even Switzerland which isn't part of the EU meets the 2-prong standard. Canada uses the NEMA 1-15 and NEMA 5-15 standards instead. And it isn't just the plugs. North America uses 120 V at 60Hz, Europe uses 230 V at 50 Hz. I really can't see a way for Canada to switch to the EU standard without a massive cost and/or a very long implementation period. And what does it gain? I much prefer europlugs and 230V appliances. My electric kettle boiled a whole lot faster in the EU, and things were retained in the socket much better than the dumb blade connectors Canada uses. But, I wouldn't want to have to pay an extra $2000 in taxes (x 40 million or whatever) just to switch to this slightly better standard.

    That's just the start of it. There are different standards for roads, vehicles, health and safety, basically every aspect of life. Canada could switch to some at great expense, like changing all road signs. But, AFAIK being truly part of the EU would mean switching to all EU standards, unless special exemptions were made.

    IMO, what would make more sense is just closer integration: free movement of people, free movement of goods, maybe closer collaboration on research, health and safety, etc.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    Canada and the EU can agree to a gradual transition, with support and planning - EU supplying the necessary devices for replacing current ones, modest discounts for trading old vehicles for new, focusing on replacing small township infrastructure before doing the bigger cities, and so forth.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Exemptions are made all the time.

    The UK never had that, and we were in the EU for ages. We still had pints. We measured the road speed in miles.

    Realistically the EU is just a collection of nations with similar socio-economic status and roughly similar culture. None of them dominate the others. Much of the rules are just common sense shit. Don't sell easily combustible clothing, etc. Odds are you meet most of it already.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    There are several standards for plugs. Types C, E, F, and G. Only the slim ungrounded plugs will fit in type C, E, and F sockets. Grounded type F plugs will be ungrounded in C or E sockets, and grounded type E plugs don't fit in anything but a type E sockets. If the type C or E are the full round plug, neither will fit in a type F socket even if it is ungrounded (I know this because I had to trim excess plastic from a type C plug to use it in a type F socket. Type G is used by Ireland Malta and Cyprus and is entirely incomparable with the other types. Type G also makes an excellent caltrop and will fuck up your foot in a profound way if you step on it. Then the Italians swiss and Danes all have their own style of plug. Most of the countries have a mixture of type C and whatever earthed version that country prefers.

    The above picture is a typical situation in Norway. The left most type C plug only fits in the type F socket because I butchered it. And the earthed type F plug is only earthed in a type F socket. Many older buildings only have type C sockets in most rooms (the kitchen and bathroom are always upgraded to type F and there's usually a cluster of type F sockets in the living room on the same wall as the TV).

    As for the voltage requirements that's only a thing because the entirety of Europe is connected in one large grid. Obviously Canada wouldn't be.

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    [–] 11 points 8 months ago (14 children)

    I like this idea a lot but would like to retain our currency. Otherwise I think it’s all upside.

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    [–] 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    As an Irish man I think Canadians should get grand fathered in automatically. Not the EU. But the NATO2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO

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    [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    Canadian politicians make all these BULLSHIT overtures about opening up trade and building up ties to the EU.

    But it's been a year, and we're still stuck with just Apple and Google for phone options, with nothing like the fairphone available.

    Someone should really smack Carney upside the head on this one.

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