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[–] 88 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Nothing wrong with using AI to organize or supplement workflow. That's literally the best use for it.

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  • [–] [S] 120 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    Except for the ethical question of how the AI was trained, or the environmental aspect of using it.

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  • [–] 47 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    There are AI's that are ethically trained. There are AI's that run on local hardware. We'll eventually need AI ratings to distinguish use types, I suppose.

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    There are AI’s that are ethically trained

    Can you please share examples and criteria?

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Sure. My company has a database of all technical papers written by employees in the last 30-ish years. Nearly all of these contain proprietary information from other companies (we deal with tons of other companies and have access to their data), so we can't build a public LLM nor use a public LLM. So we created an internal-only LLM that is only trained on our data.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Apertus was developed with due consideration to Swiss data protection laws, Swiss copyright laws, and the transparency obligations under the EU AI Act. Particular attention has been paid to data integrity and ethical standards: the training corpus builds only on data which is publicly available. It is filtered to respect machine-readable opt-out requests from websites, even retroactively, and to remove personal data, and other undesired content before training begins.

    https://www.swiss-ai.org/apertus

    Fully open source, even the training data is provided for download. That being said, this is the only one I know of.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    No one [intelligent] is using an LLm for workflow organization. Despite what the media will try to convince you, Not every AI is an LLM or even and LLM trained on all the copyrighted shit you can find in the Internet.

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  • [–] 29 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    We've had tools to manage workflows for decades. You don't need Copilot injected into every corner of your interface to achieve this. I suspect the bigger challenge for Larian is working in a development suite that can't be accused of having "AI Assist" hiding somewhere in the internals.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yup! Certifying a workflow as AI-free would be a monumental task now. First, you'd have to designate exactly what kinds of AI you mean, which is a harder task than I think people realize. Then, you'd have to identify every instance of that kind of AI in every tool you might use. And just looking at Adobe, there's a lot. Then you, what, forbid your team from using them, sure, but how do you monitor that? Ya can't uninstall generative fill from Photoshop. Anyway, that's why anything with a complicated design process marked "AI-Free" is going to be the equivalent of greenwashing, at least for a while. But they should be able to prevent obvious slop from being in the final product just in regular testing.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    You know it doesn't have to be all or nothing, right?

    In the early design phase, for example, quick placeholder objects are invaluable for composing a scene. Say you want a dozen different effigies built from wood and straw -- you let the clanker churn them out. If you like them, an environment artist can replace them with bespoke models, as detailed and as optimized as the scene needs it. If you don't like them, you can just chuck them in the trash and you won't have wasted the work of an artist, who can work on artwork that will actually appear in the released product.

    Larian haven't done anything to make me question their credibility in this matter.

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    [–] 72 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    There's nothing to complain about here. Games require tons of placeholders, in art, dialogue, and code. They will iterate dozens of times before the final product, and given Larian's own production standards, there's no chance anything but the most inconsequential or forgotten items made by an LLM will stay in.

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  • [–] 73 points 8 months ago* (12 children)

    Among the devs responding is a former Larian staffer, environment artist Selena Tobin. "consider my feedback: i loved working at @larianstudios.com until AI," Tobin writes. "reconsider and change your direction, like, yesterday. show your employees some respect. they are world-class & do not need AI assistance to come up with amazing ideas."

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/larian-boss-responds-to-criticism-of-generative-ai-use-its-something-we-are-constantly-discussing-internally

    there’s no chance anything but the most inconsequential or forgotten items made by an LLM will stay in.

    Concept art is not a placeholder. It's part of the creative process. By using AI to generate text and images you already influenced the creative process negatively.

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    [–] 55 points 8 months ago* (11 children)

    They honestly should have expected this given peoples visceral reaction to anything AI. Personally, I have huge problems with AI and refuse to play most games that have used it. I think it's poisoning every creative industry and replacing important jobs while using vague the excuse that it makes things "easier" while making the game soulless in the process. I'm willing to give Larian the benefit of the doubt simply because of their previous games being amazing, but imma wait for the reviews on this one. This game is still going to be in development for another 4 years and none of us will no what'll happen between then and now, but for now I'll remain hopefully optimistic

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    [–] 42 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Yeah, the outrage is overblown.

    This doesn't mean they're enforcing a CoPilot quota or vibe coding the game or shipping slop; it could be simple autocompletion, or (say) a component that makes the mocap pipeline easier.

    Don't let Tech Bros poison dumb tools that could help out devs like Larian.


    ...Now, if they ship slop into the final game or announce an "OpenAI partnership," that's a different story.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    …Now, if they ship slop into the final game

    At a certain level, it is going to be a chore to determine who is or is not slopping up with AI media. Not every asset comes out with six fingers and a half-melted face.

    I can see legitimate frustration with an industry that seems reliant on increasingly generic and interchangeable assets. AI just becomes the next iteration of this problem. You've expanded the warehouse of prefab images, but you're still stuck with end products that are uncannily similar to everything else on the market.

    And that's before you get to the IP implications of farming all your content out to a third party that doesn't seem to care where its base library is populated from.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago*

    At a certain level, it is going to be a chore to determine who is or is not slopping up with AI media. Not every asset comes out with six fingers and a half-melted face.

    Image/video diffusion is a tiny subset of genAI. I'd bet nothing purely autogenerated makes it into a game.

    I can see legitimate frustration with an industry that seems reliant on increasingly generic and interchangeable assets. AI just becomes the next iteration of this problem. You’ve expanded the warehouse of prefab images, but you’re still stuck with end products that are uncannily similar to everything else on the market.

    See above. And in many spaces, there are a sea of models to choose from, and an easy ability to tune them to whatever style you want.

    And that’s before you get to the IP implications of farming all your content out to a third party that doesn’t seem to care where its base library is populated from.

    Thier tools can be totally in house, disconnected from the outside web, if they wish. They might just be a part of the pipeline on their graphics workstations.


    Keep a distinction between "some machine learning in tedious parts of our workflows" and "a partnership with Big Tech APIs." Those are totally different things.

    It sounds like Larian is talking about the former, and I'm not worried about any loss of creativity from that.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    At a certain level, it is going to be a chore to determine who is or is not slopping up with AI media. Not every asset comes out with six fingers and a half-melted face.

    That's a good point. I think a lot of people are dismissing AI content because there's this fallacy and desire to believe it's all "slop". It's willfully ignorant to wave it all away like that. Sure, we've all seen the stupid stuff, and it's really annoying, but we absorb the good stuff without even knowing it. Anyone claiming they can reliably spot AI generated images is fooling themselves even at this early stage.

    I'd like to know when something is real, especially real art and even pictures of nature, but I don't think I can.

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  • [–] 32 points 8 months ago

    Considering we've already got the one former Larian employee speaking out against this, it'll be interesting to see how many more show up off the record (or maybe on the record anonymously). I'm sure there was an internal battle over it.

    There aren't many (possibly none) with more goodwill banked among enthusiast gamers than Vincke, so I feel like we're about to see just how far a popular figure can step into this particular puddle without coming out soaked.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    I’ve had an idea of making a visual novel with gen AI, but I’d want to attach “Placeholder: AI Artwork” in a visible location for each sprite. And I only even consider that because I’m not exactly a known game dev and don’t have ready access to artists.

    Larian should likely expect if they’re taking shortcuts in their position, they’d get backlash. I can at least recognize that they’re trying to be moderate about it.

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    Welp, there goes all of my enthusiasm for the next game. Will have to check out other actual game developers and artists instead of whatever Larian and their genAI prompt monkeys have become.

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