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[–] [S] 98 points 1 year ago (1 child)

Explanation: Arabic has maintained a great literary continuity through the centuries, in part due to the importance of the Quran as the literal written word of the Divine. A translation of the Quran is only a commentary - nothing more - meaning that written Arabic has had a sort of 'hard standard' that has bound together diverse locales with a common written form of the tongue.

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Native Arabic speaker here. Can confirm.

    Although it’s not always as easy as it sounds because many words and expressions from back then aren’t relevant/in-use. Also, reading poetry from the pre-Islamic era is significantly more difficult. We still have volumes of literature (specifically poetry) that predate Islam.

    The reason the language is so resilient is the use of the Quran as a reference (all translations of it aren’t considered Quran, but commentaries), and the fact we have institutes dedicated to maintaining and standardising the language as part of the Arab League (ALECSO and its subsidiaries, etc). Also, all nations of the Arab League enforce a rule that stipulates that the governments, newspapers, media/TV, and academia are required to use Modern Standard Arabic for official business across all member countries.

    Regional dialects are kind of hard to understand at first, but generally speaking, we do understand each other regardless of the dialect if the two parties communicating work at it long enough. The hardest dialects to understand are from them pesky Moroccans/Tunisians with their French-every-other-word bastardisation of the language, but we figure it out eventually.

    Edit: and I’m not bashing Moroccans/Tunisians/Algerians. We love you guys! ❤️

    Edit: spelling, grammar

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I wouldn't hold the French influence against them tbf

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Neither do I. We have the same problem with English and German here in Egypt (especially in the recent decades and with the advent of the internet)

    Edit: also in sciences and tech, it’s becoming near impossible for the regulatory bodies involved to keep up and we have to use loan words to refer to things even in official documents.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    institutes dedicated to maintaining and standardising the language as part of the Arab League (ALECSO and its subsidiaries, etc)

    With successes like Arabic, French, Korean and Turkish I don't understand how the "Descriptivism vs. Prescriptivism" debate in the anglosphere is "Descriptivism : signature look of superiority", especially since their linguistic rules are filled with more exceptions than rules, and their spelling is atrocious (although I blame the Latin roots for that, since germanic languages manage just fine)

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    Depends on what you consider "success". English is the number one second language, after all. And besides, French, while highly regulated, is full of insanity like 420+2 you would expect a prescription would iron out, meanwhile the parts of English that were prescribed, like is*land or not ending on prepositions, are notably more weird than they would be normally.

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  • [+] 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You know it's bad when you can't tell whether the words they're saying are Arabic or French.

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  • [+] 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    This is how bilinguals of any languages speak so it's not surprising. I read some study a while ago that said that if you have more than one native language it kind of works in your brain as if you have just one language, but it has all the stuff in it from both languages, which is why it's so easy to switch. I'm sure you know that some things are easier to express nicely in some languages, or don't translate easily, so it's quite useful to do this.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I think bilingual in the linguistic sense is more if you grow up using both languages a lot in early childhood, and especially if you use both in the home, and not so much about the final fluency. I do this kind of rapid switching between Dutch and English because I grew up speaking Dutch at home in an English speaking country. But I wouldn't say my Dutch is really perfect, I am missing quite a lot of vocabulary after decades in an English country and I don't know a lot of formal/polite speech. But I can easily relate to how they are mixing the languages, it is quite natural. I also find it disorienting to switch to languages I learnt later in life, even one I learnt to a very high level, and I don't often mix at all with that one.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I have this exact situation, but with Russian. Both my parents are Russian, I was born and am living in Germany LOL

    So I kinda see myself as a German Russian (not Russian German mind you :p)

    My parents (mostly my father) did sent me to Russian Saturday school from ages 6 to ~14 (?) after which I had the privilige of a Russian literature tutor together with my sibling for a few years (yes we did cover Pushkin, Pushkin, Pushkin and Pushkin.). Great teacher, I didn't appreciate the opportunity enough back then.

    I feel like I'm lacking quite a bit vocabulary, but think I have the basis that once I do convince my brain that reading Cyrillic is fun, even if it takes me a bit longer, I will be able to slowly work myself up to the classics of like Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy political theory and the whole wealth of Soviet literature...

    It often makes me quite a bit sad to be conscious of how underdeveloped my Russian is :/

    Also school friend of mine grew up trilingually (Russian German mother from Kazakhstan, Canadian father; obviously grew up and lives in Germany) BTW LOL.
    We spoke exactly the same languages (German, Russian ans English) and RLY enjoyed mixing them during our breaks.
    And yes, we did spent a lot of lunch breaks playing Durak XD.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Why is this surprising to you?

    Everyone living abroad that i have met so far ended up mixing words of their native plus the local language, sometimes some lingua franca (haha) usually English mixed in between.

    I had funny conversations about German bureaucracy with Syrian refugees. "So i got a letter from the Ausländerbehörde and they said that my Antrag got rejected curses in Arabic"

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Latvia is funny one, like speaking in Latvian with some English sparkles, greeting in Italian and cursing in Russian

    Oh, and there's the infamous "ok labi davai čau" that manages to cram 4 languages into a goodbye when closing a phone call

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The western Mediterranean is a huge mix anyways. Spanish has many words of Arabic origin. Darija has many word of Spanish origin. Spanish ojalá for instance is just inshallah. Italians and Spanish usually can speak with each other in their respective language. I had a conversation once with a Moroccan living in Italy using my poor level of Spanish. Southern French youth is increasingly using Arabic words learned from the Diaspora.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the mix ends up with a new common language being formed in a few centuries.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's called code switching, and apparently it's common in bilingual communities. On the topic of Arab code switching, rich Egyptian do it too but with English. Now that I think about it rich people not code switching is probably only an Arabian Peninsula thing.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    A lot of north African Arabic dialect words are straight up french words transliterated to Arabic. That's in addition to the lebanese dialect having some, and also many Lebanese people knowing French as a secondary language

    Also hello buddy!

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Persian look of signature superiority

    Watch me read a 900 year old text for fun

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    My work focuses on digitally processing texts from between 15th and 17th century in German. It's a pain and i look with envy to my colleagues working in English and French (around the same time). On the other hand, i like the challenge. :-)

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    [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    "understanding it all" eh~

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I think I read somewhere that Chinese readers are able to read 2000 year old texts with relatively little difficulty.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    Chinese speaker here: No, we are not. Classical Chinese is a very different language but generally the basics are taught in school. It definitely takes significant effort because the grammar and vocabulary are completely different.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Written Chinese was reformed in the beginning of 20^th^ century to be closer to the spoken language.

    Before that, it would have been true except written language was so distant from spoken, I would call them almost different languages (but that's because I'm no linguist, and someone here already told me that writing is not a language at all anyway), so the only literate people were able to read literature of the old

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I know nothing about arabic, but in my opinion it's the prettiest script.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Read it all, maybe. But understand?

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