Kinda hard to convince people suicide is caused by owning a firearm and not, you know, the reasons they committed suicide. Once again pointing societal issues as simply “not enough restrictions”, assuming that’ll fix anything. Waste of time.
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This is incorrect. Here's the data:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/
I know it's counterintuitive, but preventing access to easily lethal means of suicide decreases the number of deaths by suicide, and there's a lot of data confirming this. Suicidal crises are spontaneous and temporary MOST of the time, and 90% of people who attempt suicide do not go on to die by suicide by some other means in the future after they are rescued.
I completely agree with you that firearms greatly increase the likelihood of a suicide attempt and the success of that attempt, and that is a problem. The data shows that clearly. That being the case, so many people being suicidal at all is a more fundamental issue. Of course I support making it less likely that suicidal people will make attempts and be successful, but it's also important to consider why suicidality is such an increasingly severe issue.
Usually when a politician says "We are undergoing a mental health crisis" they mean "The mind is magic so if you think happy thoughts these problems will disappear," but it is very obvious to me at least anecdotally that mental health is generally getting worse which requires broad medical intervention. Sure it doubles the work to do and lazy cowardly Republicans want to pretend that neither problem exists, but both issues are very pressing in my opinion and worth addressing.
People's gut feelings about how suicide works are often demonstrably wrong. Means reduction and survivability are huge factors in prevention.
Would you have built a deck if you had a tool that built decks instantly and with no effort whatsoever?
Every time I think about building a deck my planning gets disrupted once I realize I dont have access to the easiest tools for the job.
That may not be the why, but making it more difficult gives people time to stop and think.
Imagine how many snap decisions we make in life due to just ease.
Not to mention, it’s probably harder to save someone from a gunshot to the head vs a OD.
I'm all for gun control, but if suicide rates are up it's because of our society not because of the tool used to commit the act. Suicide rates are the highest they've ever been in modern history and everyone is largely silent about it. Maybe one day humans will realize that they create society and can change it if they choose
I mean, if someone is suicidal, a tool that has a high chance of failure or a time where the effects can be reversed (like an overdose which might take time to set in and be treatable with prompt hospitalization) is going to lead to fewer deaths than one that is lethal instantly, because some who use it may not try again if they regret it.
Only 1 in 10 people who survive a suicide attempt go on to die by suicide. The number is much the same the world over, regardless of method.
Very few people survive putting a gun in their mouth and pulling the trigger.
There is a record high number of children doing exactly that with their father's guns. I wonder how many of those fathers claimed the gun was to "keep their family safe"? I wonder how many of them taught their children how to load and fire the round that killed them?
There's actual lives behind those numbers.
The argument is, gun control treats the symptom and not the cause. Personally, I'm mixed on it. I definitely think we should be severely limiting access to automatic weapons, and others along those lines. But too much control over legitimate hunting weapons is an attack on a lifestyle, and I absolutely see the need for handguns now that I live in an area with very large predators.
Instead, I feel we'd be much better off attacking the social injustice that leads people to feel so helpless and lost.
I think the core of this is the hurtful aspects of gender roles men and boys face about how to handle and express emotions creates the situation of increased suicidality. Yeah firearms access is going to enable suicidal people to act upon their ideation, but taking it away just leaves you with a depressed/anxious guy, who doesn't have the knowledge or resources to overcome his negative emotions. I'm not saying this in a "it's a mental health issue not a gun issue" way, but society really normalizes the ignorance of mens' emotions and for men to not build support for managing their emotions, be it intimate friendships, healthcare resources, healthy expression of emotions.
I think it's good topic to bring up, because there's a lot of things leading to men not doing too well, and I think it'd be dumb to ignore it, given the rise of acts of violence we've seen in the past decade from men who really feel disconnected or disillusioned with society. Finding out what we can do to help men cope with hardship in a more productive way, and ultimately address the root causes of the issues they face can improve things for men, as well as everyone in society.
Oh, of course, it's the guns that make them suicidal 🙄
Now, how the hell can we solve the problem if we can not even seriously recognize the cause?
My abstract for the linked article
Click to expand
Teenage boys' suicide rates in the US have increased sharply in recent years, especially among boys of color. Firearm access plays a major role, as 90% of youth who die by suicide use guns. The article discusses how traditional masculine norms discourage help-seeking, while easy access to guns in homes increases the risk of suicide fourfold for young men.
One expert recommends educating parents on safe gun storage, like childproofing, noting that over 90% of suicide attempts with guns end in death, making restrictions on access especially important for preventing youth suicide.
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i'm going to remove your comment because i severely doubt you read this entire article in two minutes and this seems like a driveby that's not engaging with the content at all, but with respect to "I don’t think guns are to blame for boys wanting to kill themselves" you are patently false. access to firearms is quite literally the most important variable, because it makes a person significantly more likely to kill themselves[^1]--a correlation between ownership and suicide is particularly established among men specifically. see for example Firearm Ownership and Suicide Rates Among US Men and Women, 1981–2013, which concludes:
Conclusions. We found a strong relationship between state-level firearm ownership and firearm suicide rates among both genders, and a relationship between firearm ownership and suicides by any means among male, but not female, individuals.
if you want a lower rate of male suicide, literally the single most effective policy to that end is less firearm ownership, and lessened access to guns generally. see Firearms and Suicide in the United States: Is Risk Independent of Underlying Suicidal Behavior? in particular, which notes that:
In the United States, where firearms are the method used in more than 50% of all suicides and where roughly 1 in 3 homes contains firearms, even small relative declines in the use of firearms in suicide acts could result in large reductions in the number of suicides, depending on what, if any, method would be substituted for firearms. Consider, for example, the fact that more than 90% of all suicidal acts with firearms are fatal, but suicidal acts with firearms constitute only 5% of all deliberate self-harm episodes. In contrast, fewer than 3% of all suicidal acts with drugs or cutting are fatal but, as a group, such acts constitute approximately 90% of all attempts (33, 34). If even 1 in 10 of the approximately 22,000 persons who attempted suicide with firearms in 2010 (the 19,932 who died and the approximately 2,000 who survived) substituted drugs or cutting, there would have been approximately 1,900 fewer suicide deaths.
[^1]: or harm another person close to them. specific citations are: “Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the October 7, 1993; “Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership,” by Arthur L. Kellermann et al., in New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 327, No. 7; August 13, 1992; “Homicide and Suicide Risks Associated with Firearms in the Home: A National Case-Control Study,” by Douglas J. Wiebe, in Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, No. 6; June 2003
Way to miss the point champ...
This ain't about young men for you, this is about gun control and you are using this tragedy as vector of attack.
Disgusting tbh
This ain’t about young men for you, this is about gun control and you are using this tragedy as vector of attack.
the biggest disservice you can do to men in the US and their high rate of suicide is to pretend that the rate has nothing to do with the prevalence of guns in this country and the normalization of irresponsible firearm ownership (especially by men). i would go so far as to say it is actively pro-male suicide to take such a position because of how well established the causal links here are.
This is a social issue, not a gun policy issue.
Idiot parents not securing their weapons are the key culprit... Can minor even purchase a gun?
Idiot parents not securing their weapons are the key culprit… Can minor even purchase a gun?
even in this narrow window, you are literally describing why it is a gun policy issue and not just a social issue. there is no obligation or requirement to securely store firearms, meaning it's often quite trivial for young people, the impulsive, or people who otherwise would not have access to a firearm to illicitly acquire them and do harm to themselves or others with them. this could be made much harder with some fairly common-sense regulations, but even those are fought against in this country even though they're pretty normal in other countries.
For example in NC:
It is unlawful to store or leave a firearm that can be discharged in a manner that a reasonable person should know is accessible to a minor.
https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-315.1.html
Is this not enough? What regulation do you think would inspired brain dead parents to be more responsible?
It's a lot like saying the French Revolution happened not because of the absolutist royal family, but because the population had access to guillotines. If they didn't have guillotines, they'd probably be using knives or something, and the same can be said about this: If they didn't have a gun, they'd probably hang
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