this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
183 points (96.9% liked)

Linux

47737 readers
908 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Despite being a heavy cell phone user for more than 25 years, it only recently occurred to me that vertical navigation on most phones is inverted when compared to traditional computers. You swipe down to navigate upward, and up to navigate downward. I recently spent time using a MacBook, which apparently defaults to this "natural" scrolling (mobile-style), and I was completely thrown off by it.

I've been using natural scrolling on a couple of my own desktops ever since, mostly as a mental exercise, and I wondered...how many of you folks prefer this method?

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

The scroll wheel is attached to the roller of the scroll, that's how I feel about it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

"Natural" is so ingrained in me by now that Samsung Dex' lack of the option is fucking with me.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It makes no sense to me. A lot of Windows drivers seem to default to it now, so scrolling down on the wheel scrolls up on the screen. I always change it back to the old method, as this way is backwards to be.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I can't help but wonder if it's only backwards to us because of our learned behaviour. The more I use it, and bounce between the two styles, the more logical it begins to feel. Definitely a paradigm shift.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For me, the macOS way of scrolling is actually the "reverse" method. On my PC with a mouse, I scroll the wheel down and the text goes down. On mobile/trackpad though, I do get what you mean about it being a learned behavior. On one hand (ha), when you drag upwards the content is going upwards as well, even though you're technically just going down the list.

I like the way that the GNOME desktop settings explains it, personally. They still use the term "natural" for the mobile way of doing it, but use "Traditional" for the standard desktop PC/mouse way of doing it - but even better, they differentiate between the "view" and the "content". Perhaps that's the picture you should use in your post as I think it does a better job of explaining it (as if you first used PC, then the "reverse" method is natural, and vice versa if you grew up using mobile first).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the tip, I swapped the image. I initially tried using the animated version of the first image, as it demonstrated the behaviour nicely, but Lemmy kept throwing JSON errors.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Quite possibly, but even on a laptop touchpad it seems wrong.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you're definitely over thinking a simple personal preference

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Haha, I'm just sharing a Sunday morning shower thought...nothing too serious here.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Traditional with an actual mouse, natural on my track pad. On the track pad, traditional feels super weird.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I think the reason Apple also went with natural scrolling for mice is because of their Magic Mouse which attempts to act like it's a trackpad. The gestures are similar to how they are on their trackpads, so it's consistent.

Touchscreens and trackpads? Natural scrolling all the way, we're directly moving the content. It works the same as if your two fingers were click and dragging the content, it does feel pretty natural.

With a traditional mouse, I see the wheel as already inverting the movement: imagine the content is the mousepad, traditional mouse wheel direction scrolling down would be pushing the content under the mouse upward. Although I think the real reasoning is probably just either you're controlling the scroll bar or the engineers just thought that's what felt natural and intuitive to them at the time. It was probably born as basically just a more granular page up/down button that became a wheel.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Curiously, I used to work teaching tech-illiterate elderly people how to use computers/phones and they always expected the behavior to be like natural scrolling. Perhaps, it's indeed the natural way...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I use traditional on my trackpad. I did get forced into natural scrolling on another device for a while and it wasn't difficult to switch. But I'm not going out of my way to switch. A trackpad doesn't have the same mental model as a touchscreen.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

If I'm not literally touching the content I'm trying to scroll, I'll stick to the default orientation (scrolling down moves content down). Wayland touchscreen input handling seems to handle this just fine and not couple touchscreen scroll direction to trackpad/mousewheel scroll direction.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Traditional for everything that isn't a touchscreen. Partly bc it's what I was raised with, partly practical. It's easier for me to two-finger scroll traditionally on a trackpad since it's less finger/wrist movement. If I use natural my fingernails hit the trackpad making the input unreliable, or I end up having to p much move my whole forearm to scroll. So traditional works better for me personally.

I get the idea behind natural scrolling, but there's that level of disconnect for me since I'm not interacting with screen directly, so my brain thinks of it like a mouse instead of like touchscreen. I'm guessing my brain might think of it differently had I been a little younger; I've used computers to some extent all my life, but didn't own a touchscreen device until college.

Idk, natural scrolling on any pointing device trips me up.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I much prefer natural scrolling for trackpads since I can do the same as on my phone: Flick it into the direction I want the content to go and then catch it once it's where I want it to be. Even though I use different fingers, I feel like the muscle memory transfers.

I'm pretty sure windows defaults to that ever since they introduced a proper trackpad API, which was 2016 iirc.

For scroll wheels I use traditional. It's what I've been using all my life and I found no reason to switch.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Natural, which is somehow not default. Despite being called natural. Not weighing in ok what is right. Just interesting how the language came to be.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I like traditional scrolling, that's how I learnt and how I like it on all my computers.

Unfortunately, I also have a MacBook, which I love! The touchpad scrolls the "Natural" way, like on any modern phone, but if you plug in a mouse, it scrolls the "Natural" way, too. Which I hate! You can change the scrolling direction in the settings, but that will change the scrolling direction for the touchpad as well, so I'm stuck.

It's so frustrating that I gave up using a mouse on the MacBook.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Wow, that's bad UX, every other OS lets you change it for individual devices or types of devices

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I use a roll reverser app on my macbook to get around this problem. You can configure touchpad to be natural and mouse to be traditional

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The normal kind! ;)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

No I don't on pc. It feels more natural to do reverse scrolling for me on a mouse. On my laptop when I use a window manager it defaults to reverse scrolling, but when I switch to a desktop environment it defaults to natural scrolling, so I just go with whatever the laptop gives me on the touchpad.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I use both a pc and Mac, as well as my phone and I just get mixed up all the time. Gives me something to think about.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I'm glad someone else feels opinionated about this! It seemed to me that everyone I come across these days only knows "Natural"!

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›