all 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 86 points 1 year ago

I thought even a couple police could get killed and it could still be considered a peaceful protest, like January 6

  • source
  • [–] 79 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    Lol a letter?

    "Give us all your information or else." Is what that letter says.

    Get fucked Hawley.

  • source
  • hideshow 21 child comments
  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    "Referral for criminal investigation" is very much not an idle threat, and their absurdly sweeping record request was probably made with that in mind. If there's something missing (or just something they say is missing), they can go after and make an example of the "socalist instigators" behind california's rebellion against trump, retroactively justifying his deployment of troops in the face of what now is "clearly" an organized campaign of sedition.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 19 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (17 children)

    Since this is just a letter and not a subpoena it has no legal authority behind it and is essentially a checklist of records to immediately destroy.

    Edit:

    So this may be a legal Subpoena. The organization should clarify with a lawyer and if it does not reach the legal threshold destroy those documents.

    Committee rules may provide for the full committee to issue a subpoena, or permit subcommittees or the chairman (acting alone or with the ranking member) to issue subpoenas..

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 17 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

    I dont think it requires a full formal subpoena for something to be considered a legal order, so non-compliance with the terms in this letter could easily be held as contempt of congress. (the record preservation part, at least. The rest is a 1st amendment SCOTUS case just waiting to happen).

    Edit:

    Although arguably any action that directly obstructs the effort of Congress to exercise its constitutional powers may constitute a contempt, in recent times the contempt power has most often been employed in response to non- compliance with a duly issued congressional subpoena—whether in the form of a refusal to appear before a committee for purposes of providing testimony, or a refusal to produce requested documents.

    So, kinda yeah...?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I'm fairly certain you need something more official than a signed letter, but I'm not a lawyer.

    So consult a lawyer and then if legal destroy those records

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    What is a subpoena, if not a signed letter from an agent of congress directing either testimony or production of information? Its possible this letter in itself could be considered a subpoena, since it was delivered in an official capacity. The only formalisms I'm aware of are guidelines and convention, which don't really mean anything anymore, and this letter seems to fit all the definitions I can find. I know it's a dumb question to get hung up on since obviously "talk to a lawyer" is the #1 thing to do here, but still it's an interesting question as to how legally binding an order in a form like this actually is.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    So I did a bit of a dive and this is what I found:

    Committee rules may provide for the full committee to issue a subpoena, or permit subcommittees or the chairman (acting alone or with the ranking member) to issue subpoenas..

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress

    So clarify with a lawyer and ensure that this action was taken under full legal authority and it likely was. I will edit my main comment to prevent the spread of misinformation

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No need, subpoenas are obvious and in fact of they aren't obvious they aren't a subpoena. Almost every subpoena from Congress the Senate or otherwise will have some variation of "subpoena duces tecum" in the header or the phrase you are "ordered" or "commanded" to appear or provide whatever.

    To Nixon https://www.justsecurity.org/61535/congress-subpoena-trump-testify/

    Charles Mitchell https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/investigations/image/Pecora_MitchellSubpoena_display.htm

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    A legal order must be served and authorized by the courts. A legislator has no means to do this without a subpoena.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    What? No it doesn't - the courts can rule on a subpoena once given out, but congress absolutely can issue them itself without certification from the courts. (edit: I'm actually unclear about this requirement, it's quite possible you're correct in that the courts must endorse an issued congressional subpoena) That's a cornerstone of the separation of powers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Nah, this is a letter from a single congressmen listing all his committes to make it look scary and official. Contempt of a congressmen isn't contempt of Congress.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Isn't that what a subpoena is? A letter from a duly authorized congressman or comittee directing production of information or testimony?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    From Wikipedia:

    contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a congressional committee or subcommittee

    So the question becomes is this Hawley or something the committee/subcommittee voted to send? It reads like Hawley to me, but IANAL.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, thats what I'm curious about. I don't know how much of this is formality and how much codified procedure, but it seems fairly plausible that this letter could be reasonably considered a subpoena - or at least, non-compliance could be considered contempt of congress.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Never do that by the way. You don't want destroyed documents you want plausible deniability and no direct link to recovery. If you are charged with spoliation generally whatever is claimed to be in the document that was destroyed is held as true even if it may not actually be true.

    Essentially it can harm you much much more then help.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 36 points 1 year ago
    [–] 33 points 1 year ago

    Fuck yourself fascist

  • source
  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Congratulations to the PSL for growing big enough and true to their own values to the point that the government has pushed for your ban

    See you underground

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (3 replies)
    [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    No fan of psl's authoritarian apologia but true to the stereotype the Marxist leninists continue to be the ones organizing most on the ground. See them at a lot of protests here in the bay area and a lot more of the disruptive ones compared to dsa who like to keep an eir of respectability and don't want to be associated with burning waymos.

  • source
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there definitely aren't any records of #5 lol

    But they really seem convinced there are paid protestors. Is the GOP really paying all these COD cosplayers that show up at street corners on Thursdays to yell about the gays?

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Dont obey the fascist nazi regime!!!!!!!!!!!

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    If they don't have the listed information, that must be proof they destroyed it and are guilty! /s

  • source
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    LMMFAO! As if someone needs to pay me to protest fascism. Get a grip, loser.

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    What's the institutional letters version of "Fuck off and come back with a warrant"?

    The presidential administration doesn't own all the courts yet. They only have so much prosecutorial staff. Just like every other level of struggle against this regime, the correct strategy is to drown them with overwhelming numbers. Any institution that gives an inch to their demands is failing the resistance, failing their peers, failing solidarity. They're going to try to destroy you in the end no matter what, always better to force their escalation immediately in order to exhaust them. Remember, authoritarian tyranny requires vastly more work, upkeep, and energy than any other system of organization.

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    What is with the weird artifacting around some of the text?

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "Oh yeah? Well, 'credible reporting' says you suck!"

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Oh Hawley, they will come for the closeted Republicans eventually.

  • source