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submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It's no wonder they suck at "converting" people, they know nothing about how socialism works. Nevermind the fact that they see it as "converting" rather than just having an open discussion, I can almost guarantee these people will immediately swing around the "no actually soviet union was based" or "nono you dont understand, china was mega based they needed to starve out the population" in a discussion once they lose their patience. If you ever get a chance to talk to these people irl, try to have a convo about a stateless society. I can speak from personal experience, when you bring that up, their mind goes blank, and they will start to sound less like a communist and more like a right-winger.

These are the people that give socialism a bad rep.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

For them “socialism” is binary. Either it’s rampant authoritarian dystopia or modern capitalism.

They reject nuance and the varying levels of social policy that can be applied even to capitalist styles of governing.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

I cheerfully install kitchen cabinets made by cheerful Vietnamese communists and then I tell the homeowners that they have helped to support a Marxist regime that was once oppressed by capitalist Americans.

[-] [email protected] 97 points 4 days ago

The thing is that it’s not even really “socialism” that the Chinese guy is is complaining about here. He’s complaining about the authoritarian aspects of the Mainland Chinese government, which is not the same as socialism. And the fact that the tankie can’t understand that is just… I don’t even know what to do with it at this point.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 4 days ago

The CCP's authoritarianism stems in part from their attempt to implement the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The concept itself is pretty weird.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat

[-] [email protected] 38 points 3 days ago

But it was never that, from the instant Mao gained any real hold on power in China. He subsumed the entire movement, and fundamentally corrupted it, in much the same way that Stalin did.

[-] [email protected] 34 points 3 days ago

you gotta understand something about tankies: they think that's a good thing

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[-] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago

Notably, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't meant to be an actual dictatorship. Marx saw feudalism as the dictatorship of the aristocracy, capitalism as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, so by analogy socialism (or the prelude to it, at least) would be the dictatorship of the proletariat—rule by the people for the people. It's not meant to be a dictatorship in the way we use that term today.

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[-] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago

The dictatorship of the proletariat is just democracy. It's just the people getting to govern themselves instead of a select Elite few. There's really nothing weird about it, the weird thing is thinking that a small closed-knit group of authoritarian Elites can ever implement the dictatorship of the proletariat because by definition they are not the proletariat.

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[-] [email protected] 67 points 4 days ago

the region where Hong Kong is

Can't even just say Hong Kong? Does that make us sound too independent or what?

[-] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago

Mentioning Hong Kong means that China is weak

[-] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago

It is kind of sad since Hong Kong hasn't really been independent for years

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[-] [email protected] 31 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

An actually communist society where everybody has equal influence would be a direct democracy.

Authoritarianism is the enemy of the communist utopia the creators of the ideology dreamed about.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

Communism has the same problems as the Free Market.

It doesn't prevent selfish people from fucking it up completely for everyone else.

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[-] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago

The tankie would easily be able to convince their friend if they said China is never going to convert to communism, but communism was tried by lots of indigenous tribes and it worked great.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago

Tankie is not an anarchist....

[-] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago

Well there's the problem!

[-] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago

I wonder why extremists hate liberals so much. They all talk of liberals with such disdain.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

Liberals are capitalists first and foremost. Profit over human rights every time.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Its actually quite simple. Fascism is not a bug of capitalism, but a feature. If theres an economic crisis capitalism tends to swing against marginalised groups in order to stop the working class from revolting against their true oppressors. If you finally want to defeat fascism you have to defeat capitalism.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

cause all non capitalist, especially countries have been the best countries in the world to live in, with best freedom indexes, most civil rights, happiest people and no mass murders, tortures, deaths rapes etc at all.

Just dont look at any real facts or history. Only consume propaganda from authoritarians.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

You do know, that communism and authoritarianism are two completely different things? Communism by itself is neither authoriatarian, or democratic. A communist world aims at dissolving all borders to achieve global equality without any form of higher governance. This of course is something thats quite unlikely to ever happen. A totalitarian regieme is directly contradictary to the pure idea of communism, which is that everyone should have the freedom to support (or not support) society. Any form of violence (no matter what type of violence) to force people into a set system is therefore contradictory to these ideas. Just because we didnt see very good examples of communism (maybe cuba, but I dont know that much about it, so I cant really judge) this doesnt mean, that communism itself is an inherently dysunctional and bad system.

Also, we have seen much more violence being emitted from capitalistic states, even if they claim to care about human rights. Every year the EU pays quite a significant amount of money to Lybia, so that their coast guard stops refugees crossing the mediterranian sea, causing hundreds of deaths and trapping those who get "rescued" by the coast guard in a subhuman system, where rape and torture are normalised.

This does not mean to invalidate the harm done by self proclaimed communist regiemes, but to show that shitty practices are done by all kinds of different people.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

In the early 1900s the workers of the world were beginning to build the framework for the democratic collectivization of resources and labour. Elites considered this such a severe threat that they were organizing their own conferences on how to deal with it. This was stopped in most countries with one of two methods: concessions (like The New Deal) or fascism. Welfare or fear-mongering austerity politics.

To put this another way: some capitalists conspired to promote and ultimately install fascist authoritarians to fight socialism because it was in their class interests to do so. The various banana republics and other economic colonies of imperialist nations? Installed by capitalists. The forever wars that no one even wants? Believe it or not, also capitalists. These are not the moves made by freedom-loving people lol.

So I guess I should ask you: where are you consuming your propaganda from?

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

The US is the most capitalist and the greatest abject failure.

Do not confuse capitalism with commerce. Commerce improves lives; capitalism seeks to destroy them for personal gain.

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[-] [email protected] 25 points 3 days ago

I don't like how they go around trying to convert people. They are honestly a lot like evangelicals.

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this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
145 points (87.2% liked)

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