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[–] 103 points 1 year ago (18 children)

The thing is that it’s not even really “socialism” that the Chinese guy is is complaining about here. He’s complaining about the authoritarian aspects of the Mainland Chinese government, which is not the same as socialism. And the fact that the tankie can’t understand that is just… I don’t even know what to do with it at this point.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    The CCP's authoritarianism stems in part from their attempt to implement the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The concept itself is pretty weird.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    But it was never that, from the instant Mao gained any real hold on power in China. He subsumed the entire movement, and fundamentally corrupted it, in much the same way that Stalin did.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    you gotta understand something about tankies: they think that's a good thing

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Oh, I know. It’s why I tilt at their windmills: to provide the counterpoint, in hopes that more susceptible people will see more than just the dogmatic Socialist Alternative hardliner viewpoint. Genuinely, I think those types do far more damage than they understand, especially in well-educated-median populaces such as Boston, when they bring their fucking Mao + Stalin silk screened Soviet flags to literally any fucking rally. If it pisses me off, as a person who’s very socialist and leaning even more so by the second, then I’m sure it’s alienating FAR more people than it’s calling to the banner.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    How can someone corrupt what was made to be corrupt lol? Lenin and Engle's empowerment of the state against the proletariat could have never ended any other way. It's the same brain rot that right wing Libertarians espouse, just from the other side.

    Out of control government, out of control businesses. It's the same picture.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I don't know much about the Chinese revolution/civil war, but it wasn't Stalin that turned Soviet Russia authoritarian; it was like that from the start. Stalin simply consolidated power within the already authoritarian framework of one-party rule. It could've been Zinoviev or Trotsky that came out on top and Soviet Russia would still have been an authoritarian hellhole. It might've been a better authoritarian hellhole or a worse authoritarian hellhole, but none of these guys were advocating for abolishing the Cheka (later the GRU) or holding new elections.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Notably, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't meant to be an actual dictatorship. Marx saw feudalism as the dictatorship of the aristocracy, capitalism as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, so by analogy socialism (or the prelude to it, at least) would be the dictatorship of the proletariat—rule by the people for the people. It's not meant to be a dictatorship in the way we use that term today.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    True, but it prescribes rule by one party (the party of the proletariat) alone. In any possible practice this rule can only be held by a party that claims to represent the proletariat, a claim that may or may not be true at any given time.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The dictatorship of the proletariat is just democracy. It's just the people getting to govern themselves instead of a select Elite few. There's really nothing weird about it, the weird thing is thinking that a small closed-knit group of authoritarian Elites can ever implement the dictatorship of the proletariat because by definition they are not the proletariat.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    It's not "just democracy" when it explicitly prescribes a one party state.

    mandates the implementation of direct elections on behalf of and within the confines of the ruling proletarian state party

    The democratic part is only within the ruling party, the one that claims to represent the proletariat.

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  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    the region where Hong Kong is

    Can't even just say Hong Kong? Does that make us sound too independent or what?

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    [–] 33 points 1 year ago* (45 children)

    An actually communist society where everybody has equal influence would be a direct democracy.

    Authoritarianism is the enemy of the communist utopia the creators of the ideology dreamed about.

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    [–] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don't like how they go around trying to convert people. They are honestly a lot like evangelicals.

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    [+] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (30 children)

    I wonder why extremists hate liberals so much. They all talk of liberals with such disdain.

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    [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The tankie would easily be able to convince their friend if they said China is never going to convert to communism, but communism was tried by lots of indigenous tribes and it worked great.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    It seems like they both agreed that there is no middle ground/compromise so they’ve got that going for them.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I cheerfully install kitchen cabinets made by cheerful Vietnamese communists and then I tell the homeowners that they have helped to support a Marxist regime that was once oppressed by capitalist Americans.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
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