Asking after the privacy debacle and manifest. I'm not keeping up closely, but iirc Firefox is the browser recommended because of Ublock. After the privacy data issue I've noticed broken trust from Firefox users, recommendations in favor of switching browsers, and predictions saying Firefox is going downhill fast and that their forks won't be maintained for much longer.

So I'm here asking the seasoned sailors' thoughts, aye. Is this just a storm passing by or are you really considering jumping ship?

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[–] 158 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

It's mostly overblown. You can watch here or read here. The internet is overreacting again, but Mozilla has done fuck all to grasp why just yoinking understandable language and expecting people to understand legalese and draw lines to their Privacy Policy is making people upset or confused.

Imo, people jumping ship is justified, because a company that makes $37M just on investments should do better about being vocal and prescient champions of privacy. Even if their actual privacy policy is the same as it was a year ago, their failure to communicate with their supporters in a way they can understand should have consequences.

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  • [–] 86 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    It may be overblown but I am seriously tired of the way Mozilla is being run. The CEO has a $7 million salary. Big red flags always appear each time they increase the salary also. May be a bit hyperbolic but that’s why I’m just using another fork after 20 years

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yeah, and while I don't have any technical qualms about the direction of Mozilla with regard to Firefox, I'm personally switching for peace of mind and because of the aforementioned inability to communicate well. I don't like working with or supporting people that can't just say what they mean. I mean, how hard would it have been to have a human-readable version for stupid people like me and have a legalese version for the lawyers?

    Regardless, as people make decisions, they deserve to be informed. It would be stupid to decide to leave Firefox if all you knew was the uninformed outrage of the internet.

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    [–] 65 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I still recommend it with a little asterisk:

    Disable a bunch of shit in it or download a privacy focused fork of it (like Librewolf)

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  • [–] 24 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    That asterisk is a problem though, having to go through and make it secure is an issue. What if you miss a setting? What if you misunderstand a setting? None of it is particularly upfront and easy. It doesn't ask you when you first install it to set this stuff up, it encourages you to just get stuck in and start using it straight away.

    It's not too complicated for a nerd whose hobby is computers or someone who has studied computers, but for the layperson it's too much.

    That's why Librewolf is so good. It's secure by default, with all the settings toggled to privacy and you can ease that off if you wish, for convenience or whatever.

    Firefox essentially can't seem to decide if they want to be FOSS or capitalist, that's an issue.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    And based on the behavior of other shitty applications and devices what if an update silently changes one of those settings back to a problematic state? If they aren’t there to begin with I don’t have to worry as much

    To be fair Mozilla doesn’t have precedent for this behavior but they also didn’t have precedent for this whole nonsense that started this drama a month ago. Things change

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  • [–] 42 points 2 years ago (14 children)
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    [–] 38 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I like LibreWolf, it's a privacy and security focused fork of Firefox.

    But I'm really looking forward to Servo, hopefully it becomes usable one day.

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    [+] 38 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
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    [–] 37 points 2 years ago (19 children)

    well Firefox may enshittify, it's still the best option imo, certainly better than chrome or anything chrome based. even better if you use a privacy focused fork like librewolf.

    there are other options out there, you can look into qt browsers, those were the basis for webkit browsers. hopefully soon things like servo/verso become more useable.

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    [–] 36 points 2 years ago

    The whole firefox controversy was overblown. Hardened firefox is still the way to go.

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I mean yeah. I'm not a fan of the changes but there's no way in hell anything Chromium based will fare any better... do they even have uBlock still???

    Probably turn off the telemetry, try a fork like LibreWolf or maybe the Arkenfox user.js if you'd rather stay close to upstream.

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    [–] 31 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    i wasn't as plussed as everyone else over it, though i am concerned. i still donate to mozilla as, ultimately, i believe they're still good for those who champion an ethical, open, and not for profit internet.

    i have switched to librefox, though, just because i like their developers and the fact that they've embraced mastodon and the fediverse. i also have firefox and nightly (though i use fennec on android because it comes through f droid)

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    [+] 29 points 2 years ago* (last edited 10 months ago)
    [–] 24 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Links2 is obviously the best browser. #links2gang

    But librewolf is pretty neat.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Firefox with like 10 different settings checkboxes unticked through its settings to disable phoning home, prevent sponsored suggestions, prevent recommendations, etc. + ublock origin extension installed, obviously.

    It used to be just an install and go ordeal. Now you have to have all these caveats. I used to send technical and interaction to Mozilla but given their terms changes I can’t be confident in them with even that much information anymore.

    Final thought is I don’t see what Mozilla’s endgame is. It costs a lot of money to develop a competitive and impactful web browser, I understand that much. Where are they supposed to get their money from? Well. I don’t get paid millions a year to solve this problem, but it seems pretty obvious the current leadership have made their minds up to make Firefox yet another advertisement browser.

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    [–] 22 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Nope. LibreWolf & Waterfox are top-tier, Zen and Mullvad Browsers aren't bad at all

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    I will say as nice as Zen seems (I agree that it's not bad), I don't really like the whole "vertical tabs" shtick. I mean, I can see why some people would like that, but personally I never got into it. It just looks weird to me and I like seeing more of my tab names (weirdly enough that's exactly what a lot of pro-vertical users claim is good about them lol).

    Also, from a privacy standpoint, not a huge fan personally of the fact that unlike LibreWolf, Zen Browser doesn't have ResistFingerprinting enabled by default (not sure if it's even in there tbh).

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    I would say no. With the recent debacle the writing is on the wall. Mozilla is not taking our privacy seriously. So, I have switched away from vanilla Firefox.

    I would recommend using a fork instead: LibreWolf, or Floorp, or Zen; and Ironfox on Android. Mullvad Browser is another option.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Floorp is kinda sketchy these days, it went closed source, then maybe reopen sourced. I would say Zen is the better pick. and on Android Fennec is a great Privacy fork of Firefox.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Not maybe. It is open source. It never went close sourced, Dev made it source available till they figured out the future of the project.

    Also I won't recommend zen cause it's in beta. It's way too unstable and the dev is no better at handling situations like above. But if you dont mind stability, zen is definitely really good feature wise

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    [–] 21 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    The browser project dedicated to open web standards steered by a compromised non-profit or the browser project dedicated to undermining the traditional web browsing experience steered by the largest advertising company on Earth ... Let me think ...

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    It's incredible unfunny to read people here on Lemmy (or in the Fediverse in general) talk about dropping Firefox for Chrome or a Chromium browser. it's like complaining that your country is going wrong by voting Trump.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Yea sticking with firefox , but with arkenfox hardening.. bugfixes are more important than fear of some wordings , at least for now. Vanadium in GOS on the phone.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    All those people leaving Mozilla, I can only assume only read headlines and not the actual articles because they're just blowing a nothing burger out of proportion.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    To be fair nobody asked Mozilla to serve a stupid and detached statement without contextualizing what they meant or try to achieve.

    [Edit] it feels like they're asking for the outrage. You can't just drop assurances of not selling data without explaining if your crowd is privacy aware. You can't take broad licenses from your users if you don't explain for what they are for. Having plaintext comment next to the lawyer speak would have fixed all that and none of this had to be this shitty. [/Edit]

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago

    I still recommend it. I'm not fully happy with the situation but for now I consider it my best option.

    1. I consider Chromium-based browsers out of the question as they give too much power to Google. This is already showing to be a problem with new APIs and "features" that Google is pushing into the web platform and the bigger the market share gets the more control they have.
    2. Web browsers are the biggest attack surface that most people have. Displaying untrusted webpages and running untrusted code is incredibly difficult and vulnerabilities are regularly discovered. I don't yet know a Firefox fork that I trust enough to reliably respond to security vulnerabilities quickly and correctly.

    So for now I am staying with raw Firefox. Not to mention that as a disto-built Firefox I have some insulation from Mozilla's ToS. But I am very much considering some of the forks, especially the ones that are very light with patches and are mostly configuration tweaks.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    Switched to Zen and Mullvad

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I am sticking with Firefox but looking at hardening with https://github.com/yokoffing/BetterFox

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    [–] 10 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    I've been using LW & Mull/IF before the outrage-TOU update and while they're great for me I wouldn't recommend them to everyone. I still keep FF as a backup and many ppl should continue to use FF for the time being as it was JUST A TOU update....for now.

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    [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    I switched to Floorp about a month ago.

    https://floorp.app/en

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Just switched to Floorp. Loving it.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    It seems the alternatives are worse but I'm definitely trying out one of the Firefox forks

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    I’ll put my vote in for LibreWolf. Happy to help anyone with a ‘i can’t get librewolf to…’ or ‘this site is broken on librewolf’, etc to help you tweak it.

    But i keep both installed. Libre for my daily driver. FF if there’s a site that i absolutely need to be identifiable for.

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    [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It's been pretty painless to switch to https://www.waterfox.net/ on desktop. There's also a Waterfox app for Android.

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