The only thing more common than Star Wars fans complaining about Star Wars is Star Wars fans complaining that Star Wars fans complain too much about Star Wars.
this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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Nah. It really isn't lol
I mean mathematically that doesn't even work because the latter group was formed by the former.
I was mostly making a joke, but I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion. Most of the internet is reactions to things.
It's easier to like things than hate them
The fuck it is. Especially when you have to engage with a fan community that is so rabidly hateful about it. I've got experience on that in multiple fandoms.
You don't have to engage with anyone if you don't want to
Yes. I could sit alone in isolation and never try to find other people talk with or share things I find exciting, being completely alone.
That is technically an option.
What a bizarrely obtuse and frankly assholish response. Basically boils down to "Either be alone or deal with the toxicity".
I'm gonna pass on wasting my time on anymore of this nonsensical bullshit. Thanks.
You seem somewhat stressed. But stress leads to anger, and anger leads to hate. A path to the dark side, stress is.
Last Jedi really just doesn't work for me, feels like they wanted to do anything but make a star wars film. But contractually obligated to make star wars.
I could write paragraphs about why I don't like it but far more interested in hearing what people do like about it.
Is it the one with the Luke/Kylo fight? That was pretty much the only thing I found exceptional in any way in the sequels, using Force projection like that to fuck with Kylo. Until the end where he became too sad to live or whatever and died (seems to run in the family).
Until the end where he became too sad to live or whatever and died (seems to run in the family).
The movie openly explained why he died. Like multiple times.
I swear that a good chunk of people who just complain about the Sequel trilogy have zero comprehension skills.
Nah, I probably just forgot that bullshit because it ruined an otherwise great scene.
I liked it because it didn’t feel like nostalgia slop. It felt like trying to take things in a new direction, while still rooted in the universe. Like the best of legends stuff tbh, in intentions and execution. Without being bound to actual legends stuff, making it just nostalgia slop (rise of Skywalker…).
I liked it was just a good movie as well. Great acting, great editing, great cinematography.
I grew up loving Star Wars, but I was never the attached type in general. I will always have the original trilogy, the clone wars tv show, the prequels to watch. Nothing changed about them with what happens in the Last Jedi. I don’t feel offended by a new thing being different.
Idk, it just felt so much better than Force Awakens, which felt like pure nostalgia slop. I actually had hope Star Wars would “get good again”.
I’d say I liked it for similar reasons I like Andor. But I actually do love Andor, and only like Last Jedi.
Maybe it also helped that I watched it in a cool movie theater while traveling and was pretty high…
And the whole “subverting expectations” thing… I don’t think Rian was trying to be edgy or be like “haa fuck you and your ‘expectations’”. J.J. just set up a terrible and fucking boring story with his first movie.
And Rian setting up Rey to be a nobody, and that it doesn’t matter if you have holy royal blood or some bullshit, was GREAT. That anyone can be the hero, not just the “destined one”. Like it was perfectly set up for the first new Jedi to be completely different, led by Rey guided by a changed and “grey” Luke, and the first pupils being the slaves and slum children. Idk… isn’t that much better than whatever the fuck was happening in the first and last movies..?
Because it's something different.
Every single Star Wars movie is basically the same thing over and over. Same cuts, same sequences, same energy, same everything. The Last Jedi shook it up and honestly I think that it was a good idea because the material was shaken too.
In the Prequels you had the story of the Jedi v the Sith but both were very confident. Both were established.
In the Original Trilogy you've got Kenobi and Yoda with a guiding hand helping to smooth things out and ease the path.
The Force Awakens shows the Resistance on about the same level as the Rebels in the OT in how they're managed and their goals. But then suddenly they're obliterated. While everyone keeps saying that Starkiller Base is just another Death Star, they neglect to point out that this one worked. It wasn't destroyed last second to help save other planets. It let off its first offensive, burning a number of planets from the void and into nothingness. This wasn't the Rebellion pushing to save their lives. This was a Resistance who now had just lost everything in the blink of an eye. All of their governmental backing, all of the support they had from elsewhere. Suddenly the First Order had just leapfrogged over them and they were in a scramble.
So they pull out and try to regroup. They evacuate their base and everyone gets ready to leave but suddenly First Order ships are nearly in orbit and they're about to start shooting you from the sky. You have to run, now, but tensions are high and everyone is on a hairtrigger. Thinking in a moment of high panic (again, he's never been in a situation like the Original Trilogy or Prequels), Poe makes a gut decision to help protect his people. His decision leaves his people heavily defenseless and even more of the Resistance is killed. So they start running. They pull back and flee and when they breathe a single sigh of relief, they're right back on them. They no longer have the safety of running away and they're strapped for resources. Then in that moment when you're trying to figure out what the fuck is going on, your flagship is attacked and your Commander in Chief has been taken out of the fight.
Now, I can go into how Poes decisions make sense for his character and how him mutinying against Holdo made sense for him but was objectively the bad call, how Holdo was actually doing the best she had and everything else but that's not my point. My point is that everyone is in disarray and there is no one around from the typical Star Wars era to help them.
But then you cut to Rey and Luke on an island and the wipes are Star Wars-y. The vibe Star Wars-y. Everything felt more in line with what we see from typical editing and what have you because Luke is there. He's been through the shit. He knows how to go through this. He's been helped and guided and is now doing the same for Rey.
Which is why when Luke and Rey suddenly shows up on Crait to help, everything starts falling back into those Star Wars patterns. The music swells in the same way, the cuts start looking Star Wars-y, the long lingering shots... The camera is telling the story of the energy of the movie and the panic of the Resistance. The more confident and assured they become, the more "Star Wars-y" things become.
I think that a lot of people do believe that Rian Johnson just made a different movie for the sake of making a different movie. But this dude made Knives Out. He knows how to make a movie and knows how to tell a story through direction, how to move that on. I think a lot of people were just really upset with how things were turning out for how they wished it and didn't see a lot of what Rian was doing.
Edit: Good ol' Star Wars fandom. Someone answers a question and poses a different viewpoint? Nah. Just downvote, scream and run in the opposition direction because you're too weak to be able to handle anything different than your own hate.
It is kind of insane how many Star Wars fans would be rejected en masse by the Jedi and the Sith for being too emotional.
I mean, the first Death Star worked too.
It destroyed Alderaan.
But that is the point. Everything loops.
My point is that the Death Star was annihilated almost instantly after posing its first real threat to any rebellion and heading to the next and Death Star 2 didn't do shit. Starkiller Base achieved its goal. It destroyed every planet that was a seat of power and in opposition to them. Was taken offline very quickly so no follow up operations, like the Death Star, but in its first strike had already achieved more than any Death Star before. As we saw in The Last Jedi and in Rise of Skywalker, the Resistance was on the ropes and the First Order, in a single strike, managed to retake control of the galaxy at large.
I don’t get how people can call out every tiny problem of the sequels and prequels then just gloss over all the trash in the originals.
Star Wars is fun. It’s way more fun if you don’t think about too much.
What trash in the originals?
I mean, Obi-Wan just turning into nothingness for starters.
Luke being capable of flying an X-wing out of the blue and killing a bunch of enemies because he was able to hit a few womprats back home? He is a much bigger Mary Sue than Ray ever was.
How about Vader being unable to sense his own daughter when she is right next to him?
Or how he commanded not to shoot the escape pod because it didn't have any lifeforms. When it costs them nothing.
And that is just the first movie.
None of these things ever bothered me when I watched the originals and they won’t bother me despite having been made aware of them by you.
Far more egregious, for me, is the way the sequel series has been edited. The movies have this unrelenting pace of cuts every couple of seconds. It never lets me relax and slowly take in a scene. It’s a completely different style of filmmaking from the original series (which had a lot more long, contemplative shots).
But then I might be a dinosaur here as I see a lot of people complaining about the length of the original trilogy and seeking fan edits to speed up the pace. I have my own personal theory that this is a result of social media (such as Instagram and TikTok) and the way Hollywood has catered to younger audiences and their lack of patience for slower paced films.
I miss slower paced films and I find almost no new films appealing (the most recent one I really enjoyed was No Country for Old Men).
Really? Your problem with the sequels is the editing and nothing else?
That's a first.
Moreover, your complaint isn't about the sequels. Your complaint is about the evolution of movie making. The original trilogy had those long takes because cinema was still fairly early and evolving. That's why the editing also jumped between OT and PT.
It’s my main problem. I found it so awful I would never want to watch them again.
Lots of ink has been spilled about the characters and plot and other issues people have with the sequels. For me they’re mostly irrelevant because the physical experience of watching the films is too uncomfortable for me to even think about that stuff.
the physical experience of watching the films is too uncomfortable for me to even think about that stuff.
Love it! Thanks for the laugh!
... Oh come on. You have got to be joking.
Agreed. People will go insanely critical on the Sequels and Rey/Kylo but then just make jokes and dismiss Luke and Leia. But sure. The original trilogy was super planned out. That's why the lightsaber combat suddenly changed between episodes and why Lucas ended up re-editing the originals a dozen times to piss everyone off.
This is the way
I like the prequels for the backstory and world building in an era we hadn’t known about yet. But the only redeeming thing about them is the show the clone wars. Without it, it would be a huge mess.
Clone Wars gives a lot of necessary context that just isn't there otherwise.
Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith suffer greatly by feeling like the 1st and 3rd movie of a trilogy that we just don't have the second part of, so Clone Wars bridging that gap (and giving Anakin character development so that his fall to the dark side means something beyond "Emo former-slave farmboy has bad dream and goes on child killing spree", seriously Anakin sucked before Clone Wars redeemed him.)
I like Phantom Menace, but it's too heavily disconnected in the timeline from the other two movies in the trilogy for it to really work with them, which is funny because if you ask me what my favorite Star Wars film the list would be.
Occupying Slot #1 - All of them for different reasons Occupying Slot #9 - Attack of the Clones
Honestly I think in a decade or so we'll come to see the sequels become beloved much like the prequels were, and for similar reasons (younger genreation that grew up with them, memes, and media that fills in plot holes now existing)
I doubt the sequels become more well thought of. It's already been 5 years from ROS a decade from TFA and nothing has really changed in a positive direction.
It took the prequels quite awhile, people STILL hated them when TFA came out.. That was the whole point of trying to make it look and feel as much like the OT as possible.
There are people that still hate the prequels, but they are the clear minority. Even on release the hate wasn't as strong for the prequels as it has been for the sequels. Some of it may be the toxic behavior of Disney outside the movies themselves, but that's a self inflicted wound.
And there will be people who still hate the sequels when the next trilogy arrives. But they will also become a minority.
Just like Star Wars itself, life repeats itself.
Yeaaaah, I'm not gonna pretend Disney's great, but I'm not going to pretend they "RUINED MARVEL AND STAR WARS FOREVER!"
Especially since if Lucas didn't sell we wouldn't have had sequel movies, we'd have had Detours.
Forever is unrealistic, but they do need to string together some well received movies and shows without attacking the fan base. As it is now I'd sacrifice the few good things to have no Disney star wars. The lack of new shows or movies didn't make me like it less.
It's a shame Disney feels the need to attack fans, if they didn't more people would have watched Acolyte, which is a shame because I liked that show
Sure but do you not agree there is major gap in quality and substance?
Some people like beer so much they would drink bud light.
Sure but do you not agree there is major gap in quality and substance?
Oh I completely agree that there was, but not when you're suggesting. It was between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy, the most critically hated series of Star Wars movies until... the Sequels. And 90% of the complaints I hear about the Sequels are emotionally based with nothing that people can physically point to. The other 10% have valid criticisms but most people don't voice them. They just whine.
At worst the Sequels fall between PT and OT in terms of quality. At the bare minimum, it was a step up from the confused mishmash of the Prequels.
At the bare minimum, it was a step up from the confused mishmash of the Prequels.
You're saying this of the trilogy that was made by 2 directors actively trying to undo what the other did, interesting
I'm not a star wars fan but I am familiar with the movies and the making of them all (film school nerd) so to see someone claim something like that is wild
Honestly the comments of yours read like someone with very little media literacy who likes the ST. That's fine, you can like what you like. It's the "no actually people who dont like it are stupid nitpickers who didn't even pay attention" that gets you laughed at like an idiot
My only real problem with the sequels is Last Jedi, Rian Johnson needed a plan outside of "subvert expectations!"
There's nothing wrong with doing a movie where "Okay, now I'm going to do the opposite of what the audience thinks I should do!", but it really should be your own IP, it's not an experiment you should run during the middle part of an important trilogy for a franchise so well-renowned that they border on a major world religion.
Force Awakens - A re-telling of A New Hope that brought the franchise "Back to basics" after all the weird shit the PT did (Weird, but not unwelcome)
Rise of Skywalker - Beautiful film, wonderful ending to the story, I just wish Finn did more outside of yell Rey and have his scenes and romance with Poe Dameron cut to appease China.
Last Jedi... feels like a decent film, that belongs in a different trilogy than the other two.
Really there's not many Star Wars things I actively hate, but the ones I do include Book of Boba Fett
Subverting expectations also needs to serve a purpose. If you have people use a window instead of a door to get in a house, it subverts expectations, but if nothing comes from it then it's meaningless. Most of TLJ feels like subversions that don't actually change anything.
Indeed, the only one I liked was funnily enough the one people complained most about... Luke throwing the saber away and being done with the whole Jedi thing. I kinda liked that, he saved the galaxy and became a legendary hero only for it to all go to shit with everyone expecting him to come back and save the day again like he's Jesus or something, there was never going to be any reason outside of "I don't want to be found!" that would have been anything other than a contrivance.
The rest ugh... just "Why?" Why make a location as cool of a concept as the casino planet of Canto Bight if nothing is to be done with it. Why introduce the Master Code Breaker if he's not going to contribute anything or be important in anyway?
The Original Trilogy subverted expectations too, but it did so in a way that served the story and themes well: Yoda being the absolute best example, we think he's a comic relief muppet just there to be funny, but it turns out he actually is this wise and powerful warrior teaching us a lesson about not judging based on appearances.
In Last Jedi, the Master Codebreaker just looks over to our heroes, decides not to help them, and is never referred to again..
There's never any point to him, there's no "Heroes aren't what they're cracked up to be" statement, nothing, he's just.. there... they find A codebreaker that isn't the one they were sent for, but he just betrays the group, does some "both sides" shit we're supposed to think is profound, and ultimately ensures nothing is actually accomplished, making the entirety of Canto Bight pointless filler.
I wanna like Last Jedi, there's some good stuff. I like the subversion of Kylo Ren being the one to kill Snoke, I like that there was no deeper meaning to Snoke he was just a puppet of Sidious, I like Rey and Ren teaming up to fight the Crimson Guard, I like Rose stopping Finn from sacrificing himself, I like the whole message of "Defending what we love." being what's important, I like the stand-off between the First Order and Luke's Projection, but I don't like that so much of the movie is wasted on the slowest high speed spaceship chase in history for no other reason than Rian Johnson thinking he's smarter than he really is.
Kylo killing snoke isn't actually a subversion though. That's how sith worked, the apprentice would eventually get strong enough to kill the master.