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[–] 71 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

It's just a multiple choice test with question prompts. This is the exact sort of thing an LLM should be very good at. This isn't chat gpt trying to do the job of an actual doctor, it would be quite abysmal at that. And even this multiple choice test had to be stacked in favor of chat gpt.

Because GPT models cannot interpret images, questions including imaging analysis, such as those related to ultrasound, electrocardiography, x-ray, magnetic resonance, computed tomography, and positron emission tomography/computed tomography imaging, were excluded.

Don't get me wrong though, I think there's some interesting ways AI can provide some useful assistive tools in medicine, especially tasks involving integrating large amounts of data. I think the authors use some misleading language though, saying things like AI "are performing at the standard we require from physicians," which would only be true if the job of a physician was filling out multiple choice tests.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago (11 children)

    I wonder why nobody seems capable of making a LLM that knows how to do research and cite real sources.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I mean LLMs pretty much just try to guess what to say in a way that matches their training data, and research is usually trying to test or measure stuff in reality and see the data and try to find conclusions based on that so it doesn't seem feasible for LLMs to do research

    They maybe used as part of research but it can't do the whole research as a crucial part of most research would be the actual data and you'd need a LOT more than just LLMs to get that

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Have you ever tried Bing Chat? It does that. LLMs that do websearches and make use of the results are pretty common now.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    Bing uses ChatGPT.

    Despite using search results, it also hallucinates, like when it told me last week that IKEA had built a model of aircraft during World War 2 (uncited).

    I was trying to remember the name of a well known consumer goods company that had made an aircraft and also had an aerospace division. The answer is Ball, the jar and soda can company.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    I had it tell me a certain product had a feature it didn’t and then cite a website that was hosting a copy of the user manual… that didn’t mention said feature. Having it cite sources makes it way easier to double check if it’s spewing bullshit though

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    Because the inherent design of modern AIs is not deterministic.

    Adding a progressively bigger model cannot fix that. We need an entirely new approach to AI to do that.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago

    For me the biggest indicator that we've barking up the wrong tree is energy consumption.

    Consider the energy required to feed a human with that required to train and run the current "leading edge" systems.

    From a software development perspective, I think machine learning is a very useful way to model unknown variables, but that's not the same as "intelligence".

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Cohere's command-r models are trained for exactly this type of task. The real struggle is finding a way to feed relevant sources into the model. There are plenty of projects that have attempted it but few can do more than pulling the first few search results.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    What would be much more useful is to provide a model with actual patient files and see what kills more people, doctors or models.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago (7 children)
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Like “Is it Cake”

    But life or death is on the line….

    “Is it Lupus?” Or “Are you Dying?”

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    All these always do the same thing.

    Researchers reduced [the task] to producing a plausible corpus of text, and then published the not-so-shocking results that the thing that is good at generating plausible text did a good job generating plausible text.

    From the OP , buried deep in the methodology :

    Because GPT models cannot interpret images, questions including imaging analysis, such as those related to ultrasound, electrocardiography, x-ray, magnetic resonance, computed tomography, and positron emission tomography/computed tomography imaging, were excluded.

    Yet here's their conclusion :

    The advancement from GPT-3.5 to GPT-4 marks a critical milestone in which LLMs achieved physician-level performance. These findings underscore the potential maturity of LLM technology, urging the medical community to explore its widespread applications.

    It's literally always the same. They reduce a task such that chatgpt can do it then report that it can do to in the headline, with the caveats buried way later in the text.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    Neat but I don't think LLMs are the way to go for these sort of things

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (11 children)

    I don’t mind so long as all results are vetted by someone qualified. Zero tolerance for unfiltered AI in this kind of context.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    If you need someone qualified to examine the case anyway, what's the point of the AI?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    The ai can examine hundreds of thousands of data points in ways that a human can not

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

    In the test here, it literally only handled text. Doctors can do that. And if you need a doctor to check its work in every case, it has saved zero hours of work for doctors.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    how high processing power computers with AI/LLM’s can assist in a lab and/or hospital environment

    This is an enormously broader scope than the situation I actually responded to, which was LLMs making diagnoses and then getting their work checked by a doctor

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  • [+] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    In the example you provided, you're doing it by hand afterwards anyway. How is a doctor going to vet the work of the AI without examining the case in as much detail as they would have without the AI?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago*

    Input symptoms and patient info -> spits out odds they have x, y, or z -> doctor looks at that as a supplement to their own work or to look for more unlikely possibilities they haven't thought of because they're a bit unusual. Doctors aren't gods, they can't recall everything perfectly. It's as useful as any toxicology report or other information they get.

    I am not doing my edits by hand. I am not using a blade tool and spooling film. I am not processing it. My computer does everything for me, I simply tell it what to do and it spits out the desired result (usually lol). Without my eyes and knowledge the inputs aren't good and the outputs aren't vetted. With a person, both are satisfied. This is how all computer usage basically works, and AI tools are no different. Input->output, quality depends on the computer/software and who is handling it.

    TL;DR: Garbage in, garbage out.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Why do skilled professionals have less-skilled assistants?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Usually to do work that needs done but does not need the direct attention of the more skilled person. The assistant can do that work by themselves most of the time. In the example above, the assistant is doing all of the most challenging work and then the doctor is checking all of its work

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    This research has been done a lot of a times but I don't see the point of it. Exams are something I would expect LLMs, especially the higher end ones, to do well because of their nature. But it says next to nothing about how reliable the LLM as an actual doctor.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago*

    Even those who do well in testing of wrote knowledge can perform poorly in practical exercises. That’s why medical doctors have to train and qualify through several years of supervised residency before being allowed to practice even basic medicine.

    GPT-4 can’t do even that.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    But it says next to nothing about how reliable the LLM as an actual doctor.

    Yet these tests say anything about how a human would be as an actual doctor?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    The 17th percentile in peds is not surprising. The model mixing it's training data with adults would absolutely kill someone.

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