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Is the SFC the Future of the Free Software Movement? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I've been thinking about this for a while now.

Richard Stallman has been practically synonymous with Free Software since its inception. And there are good reasons why. It was his idea, and it was his passion that made the movement what it is today.

I deeply believe in the mission of the Free Software movement. But more and more, it seems that in order to survive, the Free Software movement may need to distance itself from him.

Richard Stallman has said some really disturbingly reprehensible things on multiple occasions (one and two). (He has said he's changed these opinions, but it seems to me the damage is done.)

He's asked that people blame him and not the FSF for these statements, but it seems naive to me to expect that to be enough not to tarnish the FSF's reputation in the eyes of most people.

And Richard Stallman isn't the only problematic figure associated with the Free Software movement.. Eben Moglen (founder, Direct-Council, and Chairman of Software Freedom Law Center which is closely associated with the FSF) has been accused of much abusive and anti-LGBTQIA+ behavior over which the Free Software Foundation Europe and Software Freedom Concervancy have cut ties with the SFLC and Moglen (one and two).

Even aside from the public image problems, it seems like the FSF and SFLC have been holding back the Free Software movement strategically. Eben Moglan has long been adamant that the GPL shouldn't be interpreted as a contract -- only as a copyright license. What the SFC is doing now with the Visio lawsuit is only possible because the SFC had the courage to abandon that theory.

I sense there's a rift in the Free Software movement. Especially given that the SFC and FSF Europe explicitly cutting ties with the SFLC and Moglen. And individual supporters of Free Software are going to have to decide which parties in this split are going to speak for and champion the cause of the community as a whole.

I imagine it's pretty clear by this point that I favor the SFC in this split. I like what I've seen from the SFC in general. Not just the Visio lawsuit. But also the things I've heard said by SFC folks.

If the Free Software movement needs a single personality to be its face moving forward, I'd love for that face to be Bradley M. Kuhn, executive director of the SFC. He seems to have all of Stallman's and Moglen's assets (passion, dedication, an unwillingness to bend, and experience and knowledge of the legal aspects of Free Software enforcement) perhaps even more so than Stallman and Moglen do. And Kuhn excels in all the areas where Stallman and Moglen perhaps don't so much (social consciousness, likeability, strategy.) I can't say enough good things about Kuhn, really. (And his Wikipedia page doesn't even have a "controversies" section.) (Also, please tell me there aren't any skeletons in his closet.)

Even if the community does come to a consensus that the movement should distance itself from Stallman and Moglen, it'll be difficult to achieve such a change in public perception and if it's achieved, it may come at a cost. After all, Stallman is the first person everybody pictures when the FSF is mentioned. And acknowledging the problems with the Free Software movement's "old brass" may damage the reputation of Free Software as a whole among those who might not differentiate between the parties in this split. But I feel it may be necessary for the future of the Free Software movement.

That's my take, anyway. I'll hop down off of my soap box, now. But I wanted to bring this up, hopefully let some folks whose ideals align with those of the Free Software movement about all this if they weren't already aware, and maybe see what folks in general think about the future of the Free Software movement.

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

The problem with the fsf is way deeper than Stallman. I think Stallman can some good qualities but but him and the FSF need some new ways of thinking.

For instance, why is this community modded by me? You would of though that they would of monitored the state of Reddit and jumped on board Lemmy. Its things like these that show that the fsf is blind.

Another complaint I have is that they feel that you either use 100% proprietary software or 100% free software. The problem with this way of thinking is that it skips over trying to get ordinary people to make small changes. Its not practical to change in one day or one month for that matter. We need slow change by promoting privacy and software freedom though convenience.

I think the free software ecosystem is doing well but it has nothing to do with the FSF.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

For instance, why is this community modded by me? You would of though that they would of monitored the state of Reddit and jumped on board Lemmy. Its things like these that show that the fsf is blind.

First of all, thanks for doing this. Some months ago when I searched for a community like this, I couldn't find anything. I'm not sure that the FSF can do much more, though.

Richard Stallman still travels the world to give talks about Free Software in multiple languages. They have a conference called Libre Planet. I wish there were more of Richard's talks on YouTube, but other than that I don't know what else they could do that would matter.

It's just very hard to reach people with such a complicated message. I think that's why a lot more people have heard of the term Open Source than Free Software. Even on Lemmy most discussions are about "Open Source" and "Linux". When I commented on some proprietary app being made for Lemmy saying that it was unethical, people downvoted me. They don't understand when I say that users deserve rights and they think Free Software just means you want to get something for free (I don't think it even has anything to do with the word "free", btw - they often think the same way about "Open Source").

It's a very complicated topic to explain to an average person, even to developers (many Free Software projects have a Discord server or use other proprietary software). We still should try whenever we can, but this should really be taught at schools. I doubt the FSF can suddenly become much better at this, no matter what they do. If you think there is a gap, we could try to fill it ourselves (and maybe we should), but we probably aren't gonna build a big audience either.

Also, I just remembered there were some talks about promoting Free Software in last Libre Planet: https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/questions-are-the-answer-how-to-have-deeper-conversations-with-anyone-about-free-software-philosophy/

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Sorry for chiming in at about a year later, but I see some issues with the state of "Free Software":

1: IMO, Libre Software is a better way to say it, since it doesn't have the ambiguity that "Free Software" does. 2: Revolt is a perfectly fine replacement for Discord - it has almost no bugs, and works identically to the latter. 3: The average person does not, and will never code. Libre Software movements like the FSF should focus on more practical benefits of Libre Software, although not ignoring ethical concerns (e.g. never being locked out of your software is a big benefit, that covers both practical and ethical considerations)

Please do correct me if I'm wrong about something I said, but I wrote this with all the knowledge I currently have.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Im fine with stallman but the movement should not need a face. Its goals are simple and established at this point and that is what is important.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

FSF's leadership has always been lacking. SFC is filling the gap because it exists. Stallman made some important contributions to starting/coalescing the movement, but he's been "at the helm" since the 80's and at this point it's hard to say what FSF even does. Maintain GNU, half of which projects nobody uses and are just there so they can say they're keeping up? Maintain the GPL, which they haven't updated since 2007 and which has a whole slew of new legal workarounds now? Be a groupie club for RMS?

edit - a word

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It's not just the personalities, annoyingly. Even if supporters didn't need to support Stallman with absurd statements like "he's just too precise with his words for you to understand him," the FSF still spent the '90s loudly dismissing people asking straightforward questions about what would happen if someone put GPL'd software onto an appliance or behind a web server. They mostly ignore anything that isn't code. They've never looked at the future or how to convince people of their message. So, while I've donated to them in the past, I don't really see them as relevant anymore. Putting Stallman back on the board with their "we miss him" press release also made it clear that they don't see themselves as much more than his personal entourage, which even if he were the nicest, most progressive person in the world, would disqualify them as useful.

Is the Conservancy a replacement? I don't know, because I don't know if I can see their missions as overlapping enough to do so. It's been a decade since Kuhn (not to pick on him) has so much as mentioned Copyleft-Next, for example, and that repository hasn't budged in seven years.

Honestly, what I think that I'd really like to see is more of a grass-roots organization, where we're not constantly waiting for "leaders" to show up. Especially since software has largely shifted to (on the ground) management through distributed systems and issue-tracking, it seems silly to keep imagining the Free Software movement as centralized.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Most if not all of the accusations against Stallman have been debunked

[-] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, I'll give that page a read. Just at a glance, though, it seems pretty hard to square that page with the Wikipedia page on Stallman.

But even if (and I still consider this a big if -- also clearly the SFC and FSFE don't agree) Stallman's a saint (and not just in the Church of Emacs), having to defend him is pretty problematic. To the point that whether there's validity to the accusations against him or not, it would probably be good if he parted ways with the FSF for the good of the Free Software movement.

this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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