Chapotraphouse

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[–] Apolonio@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (6 children)

It is patronizing when you consider agreeing with your position to be

the UTMOST FUNDAMENTAL basis upon which to change your lives

Like yeah, thanks buddy, I'll go with our Honduran comrade in trying to remind Hexbear that latin american people should be taken as having their own thoughts and motivations

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[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

that latin american people should be taken as having their own thoughts and motivations

You're free to have whatever thoughts you want, just don't expect to be treated like an actual Westerner when you enter an actual Western country

*unless you're really pale and can speak with an American accent. Then you will be!

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[–] Apolonio@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

The shared cultural heritage between latin american and "western in the strictest sense" countries seems to be weaponized by certain groups within latin american societies. Because of this, I don't think we should completely disregard what our comrade from Honduras points out.

I made an effort post with a more detailed account of this view over at /c/effort but this is the bottom line.

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[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

The shared cultural heritage between latin american and "western in the strictest sense" countries seems to be weaponized by certain groups within latin american societies. Because of this, I don't think we should completely disregard what our comrade from Honduras points out.

So because compradors weaponize those western values instilled via colonialism, they should embrace those values? Define themselves by it? I don't know how you see the relationship of compradors re-inforcing white supremacy and "western values" and don't buck them off and reject them and seek to destroy them. Instead, you argue online with western leftists who want to see the west destroyed? Instead you embrace those colonizer's values as the TRUE IDENTITY of your country? WTF.

You are inverting everything and glorifying colonization. This "honduran comrade" is essentially making the exact same arguments as his comprador masters want him to, fully internalizing the colonizing values and making it part of their identity.

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[–] Apolonio@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

Not really, zed. I dont think it should be embraced as our identity. I just think it should not come across as surprising that a Honduran considers Honduras a western country. That it would be more productive to point out that class relations within Honduras supersede such cultural ties, instead of antagonizing him with how much a northern european would not consider him western.

I also dont think when people from Latam understand their countries as western are they unaware of the reality of colonization and exploitation by the global core. Conflation of western and global north and central economies is not as common within Latam as it seems to be tô you guys from other regions of The globe.

Please do not accuse me of glorifying colonization. I dont think my post allows that reading

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[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

I just think it should not come across as surprising that a Honduran considers Honduras a western country

If they are a communist and understand history of colonialism then they wouldn't see themselves as western nor would they want to see themselves as western. They would see their country as "westernized" by outside, imperialist forces - and they must decolonize and "de-westernize"

That it would be more productive to point out that class relations within Honduras supersede such cultural ties, instead of antagonizing him with how much a northern european would not consider him western.

It's not "antagonizing" someone to just plainly and clearly state the truth of their peripheral status and that the imperial core would eat them alive in a second if they felt like it. Any allegiance or camaraderie they feel with "the west" is entirely one-sided and in their own mind and they must be disabused of this fantasy. Pathetic for any communist to really hold these views, makes it sound like they would be little different from their comprador masters in practice - trying to suck up to the west for membership still, still being good house slaves and running dogs. I only trust people who hate the West, want to distance themselves from it, destroy it, and purge it from their societies. Wanting to be included in "the West" to me is basically class treason, especially to start making white supremacist adjacent argument about how "The West" means Ancient Greece, and there's nothing inherently racist about the Greeks so modern day "West" also isn't racist just another grouping of peoples.

This is chauvinistic delusion that any communist should be ashamed to think. Then to try and shame us for being racist when they have so internalized Western white supremacy is another layer on top.

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[–] Apolonio@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago

Ok, let's disengage