351
Pluralistic: “If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing” (pluralistic.net)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/technology@beehaw.org
213 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 19 points 2 years ago (21 children)

Depends on the circumstances I guess, but no matter how I feel about it people jumping the turnstile aren't stealing the train.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 21 child comments
    •
  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (11 children)

    Are they stealing a ride?

    I don't like this analogy, because there's a real, albeit small, cost to the subway of that free ride, in terms of fuel and increased maintenance. Digital piracy has literaly no real cost to the producer except the nebulous "lost sale."

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    It should be a free service anyway. Without free public transport, democracy does not exists. Same reason healthcare and education should be. So sure, you are “stealing” a ride - something that should be yours anyway because people are not born with the ability to travel kilometers of cityscapes, something that is now mandatory to survive and thrive.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    Digital piracy has literaly no real cost to the producer except the nebulous “lost sale.”

    You know that the pirated files were stolen in the first place, right? Movies and video games aren't just sitting out in the open free for somebody to snatch up like apples on a tree. They end up in the hands of scene groups by somebody in the studio taking an unauthorized copy of the product and distributing it.

    Lost sales are damages, as demonstrated by the courts hundreds and hundreds of times over now.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Ever heard of "ripping" a disk, a stream, or a download? Movies, series, and video games get paid for by someone who then proceeds to make unauthorized copies, they very rarely come from anyone at the studio.

    Lost sales are "legal" damages, which doesn't mean they're actual loss of anything, since people who were not going to pay, are worth exactly $0.

    It's different when bootleg copies get sold, since then there is an actual payment that isn't going to the right person.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

    Does you license plate say "PRIVATE"? Because this is some real sovereign citizen logic, using definitions of terms that the rest of the world doesn't agree with.

    Ever read the message at the beginning of a rip? You know, the one with the FBI logo on it. Remind me what it says?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    using definitions of terms that the rest of the world doesn't agree with.

    Like which one exactly?

    Ever read the message at the beginning of a rip? You know, the one with the FBI logo on it. Remind me what it says?

    There is none. Some rips used to come with a "Ripped by [some nick]" and a scene group logo, but they've grown out of fashion.

    Just kidding, I know you meant this one: https://youtu.be/CXca40Z01Ss

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    Like which one exactly?

    "people who were not going to pay" is not one singular group, but you use this as if everybody who isn't going to pay is part of the same demographic. Some people won't pay because they don't want it in the first place. Some people won't pay because while they want it, they can't afford it. And some won't pay but will take it anyway because they feel entitled to it.

    Painting all these groups with the same brush is disingenuous at best, and intentionally deceptive at worst.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    Many scene groups actually purchased the games and cracked them, I've read NFOs that say "buy the game, we did too".

    People recording in movie theatres have to either sneak into the theatre or buy a ticket themselves.

    Someone scanning a book to post online had to have bought it or borrowed it.

    Yes some games are cracks of illegitimate obtained leaked copies or other unscrupulous methods.

    I have played pirated games in the past but my Steam library has thousands of dollars worth of games I bought, many of which I wouldn't have if I weren't interested in these type of games to begin had pirating games not been possible.

    Sure, the opportunity cost from piracy's "lost sales" to the publisher/licensor is non-zero. But how many sales that would have happened varies greatly on the perceived value vs. price of the product, and how available it is. If it's not in stores anymore and can only be bought from scalpers on eBay, the publisher cough Nintendo cough doesn't see that money anyway vs. pirating it.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I have hundreds of CDs, which are bought and paid for. Tell me, again, how making copies and (hypothically, of course) giving them to friend[1] incurs a direct cost to the CD producer?

    Nearly all pirated content was most likely originally purchased once, and ripped. There's no evidence that much of it is from shoplifted DVDs.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Nearly all pirated content was most likely originally purchased once, and ripped. There’s no evidence that much of it is from shoplifted DVDs.

    There's no evidence that "much" of it is from purchased DVDs, either.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    No, they're just stealing the fuel and wages the employees should be getting for maintaining the train.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    The employees don't get paid less if some jumps the turnstile, the fuel cost to carry a single person is completely trivial, and I didn't say nobody should care about turnstile jumpers. I said its not stealing. If you damage the tracks and cause the train to derail you're a monster, and there are financial costs, but you still didn't steal the train. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    So are you arguing that turnstile jumpers are harming the company, but they are not stealing the service / train / ride? Like the literal word "steal".

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes. That is in fact what I am arguing. I would also argue that the harm is tiny and can sometimes be justifiable, depending on the circumstances, but yes. It absolutely does do some non-zero harm, and yes there is no thing being stolen. That is the argument I am making.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •