PHOENIX (AP) -- The 2024 presidential election is drawing an unusually robust field of independent, third party and long shot candidates hoping to capitalize on Americans' ambivalence and frustration over a likely rematch between Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [S] 15 points 2 years ago (61 children)

I think a lot of people thinking about voting third party are going to need reasons TO vote for someone, not reasons to not vote for the other guy. Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.

And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 61 child comments
  • [–] 72 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    If a Trump presidency doesn't scare the shit out of them at this point, then they were already looking for excuses to support him, and "I want someone to vote FOR" is just a stupid excuse.

    Like, I want a gazillion dollars and a private island, but I also don't smear shit on the walls of the public library when I wake up and don't get those things. Anyone who does, just wanted to smear shit on the walls.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    I haven't seen Dark Brandon in a while. Like, months.

    I vote FOR Dark Brandon. I'll give Biden my vote over Trump. Those are different things, even if the objective measure looks the same.

    I'd like to vote for DB and get him.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    To be fair to OP, I've seen "Dark Brandon" more as a meme to vex conservatives, used when Biden accomplishes a one of his policies, and particularly when fighting to get student loans forgiven.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    This.

    Dark Brandon gets policy wins, judges in seats, he moves things. He gets funding for Ukraine.

    I haven't seen as much of that.

    Israel isn't something I agree as much with him on, but that's not what I was talking about.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    It's been a few days so this thread should largely be inert.

    I'm not sure who you were replying to because it wasn't me.

    I said nothing about Israel. I said I'd give him my vote. Your tone was dismissive to someone who wrote what you wanted to read, but I did not say or imply.

    Not interested in a flame war, only discussion. If you respond with hostility or more bad faith, you'll get the last word - I'll not reply.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (3 replies)
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Anyone not terrified of a Republican and/or Trump presidency has a shitton of privilege and needs to fucking check it. Cishet, white and men are prominent demographics for "he won't hurt me too badly" and by the time the redcaps come for those not in lockstep it'll be far, far too late.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (23 children)

    In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I'm becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (21 children)

    It’s crazy how people view voting. In life we have so many situations where we look at realistic options and choose the best thing, or even the least bad thing, from those options.

    But then with voting people feel like making their vote should be like wishing on a birthday cake. It’s totally irrational, as you say.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 21 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (6 children)

    If we don't accept that irrational people exist and do what we can to get their votes, we risk the return of Trump.

    But it's way more fun to shout at them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    One can't cater to or court the irrational. We can however stop humoring them and giving them undeserved respect. That might lead more rational people to mistakenly consider them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    One can’t cater to or court the irrational.

    Republicans keep doing it. They beat Clinton in 2016 by doing it.

    Centrist Democrats would rather lose than debase themselves by moving one Planck length to the left.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    And it's coming back to bite them in the ass. Further, condoning and catering to those views only speeds up the rotting brain mush that is the current American political psyche. Making it easier for fascist strong men to take over. On undeliverable promises of candy mountains and soda pop swimming pools. As a socialist largely opposed to Democrats neoliberal economic plans. I can still support them, as our best current possible option. But they absolutely do need to promote themselves better.

    But Republicans have cornered the market on those who enjoy being lied to at infinitem. And it is simply not a viable tactic for democrats to even try to steal that group from them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    And it’s coming back to bite them in the ass.

    So first it'll never work, and now it works but it's biting Republicans in the ass by... giving them control of the House and the Supreme Court. When you're finally done moving goalposts, please return them.

    As a socialist largely opposed to Democrats neoliberal economic plans. I can still support them, as our best current possible option.

    Yeah, I can support them too. That doesn't mean I need to shut up when I think they're making stupid mistakes, particularly since they're gonna blame me for the results regardless of who I vote for.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes, in a long-term scope it will never work. The statements are not contradictory no matter how hard you try to imply that they are.

    Love that straw man though. Why that's even non sequitur. The thought process to contort from someone pointing out that they're a socialist and disagree with Democrats. To claiming that critiquing democrats is inappropriate after immediately critiquing democrats. That's such an odd claim that I'm inclined to ask if you were reading off the wrong script.

    That said, in the context of presidential elections. One should NEVER consider 3rd party candidates until one of 2 things happen. First past the post voting is replaced with something better. Or said 3rd party has a presence in state or federal legislature of 10% of US states.

    Criticize Democrats all you want. I sure do. In the meantime primary them, push them left. But don't split the vote letting the ideal be the enemy of reality when it's important. And it's very important Trump never gets back in. Well important if you like even having an illusion of voting.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago*

    Yes, in a long-term scope it will never work.

    So, first you said it can't work. I provided an example of it working. Then you moved the goalposts and said it's biting Republicans in the ass. I pointed out that they gained power, not lost it. And now you've moved them again and said it can't work long term. I didn't say it needs to.

    If it's vital to the very continued existence of Democracy that Trump loses this next election, why are we not trying to get every vote we can, even from people who you consider irrational? It certainly never stopped the Democratic Party from moving to the right to court the few remaining irrational moderate Republicans who stay with that party even after what it's become. Why is it always the left that has to think about the short term when we're being screamed at to vote for the candidate who will maybe consider temporarily forestalling fascism because eventually the party will totally start listening to anyone to the left of Manchin? Why does the party never have to think about the short term and court people who it considers beneath their contempt so that they can forestall fascism?

    That said, in the context of presidential elections. One should NEVER consider 3rd party candidates until one of 2 things happen. First past the post voting is replaced with something better. Or said 3rd party has a presence in state or federal legislature of 10% of US states.

    At no point have I suggested voting for a third party. To the contrary, I think the Democratic party should work to get those votes back, because it needs them. But for some reason, that never works because of wherever you decide to put the goalposts this time.

    Criticize Democrats all you want.

    Sure, if you happen to like wild accusations.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (13 children)

    If you're at a restaurant and they don't have anything you want, you can go to a different restaurant.

    In this case I'm tied to a chair and forced to pick a douche or a shit sandwich while people tell me I'm a bad person for not wanting either.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    An apt analogy would be: you are diagnosed with cancer, and you can choose to (a) go through treatment and have a high chance of survival, or (b) let the cancer run its course and die.

    Voting third party in this country is equivalent to saying “I’m going to go to a faith healer instead”. You think you’re choosing a more appealing option but you’re actually just choosing option b.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (11 children)

    Nah, fuck that. A restaurant doesn't serve cocaine-laced cupcakes that give you an orgasm, yet you still down the bacon cheeseburger because the latter tastes good and the former simply isn't an option. Anyone who walks in and refuses to order from the menu because they can't get a blowjob and a back massage with it, is a fucking moron.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    It's gonna be republicans making a protest vote. Democrats are in lock step for once

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Telling them "it's just voting for Trump" isn’t going to convince them.

    They also use that argument against people who don't show up to vote -- the very same people who might show up for a candidate they want to vote for.

    In other words, despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, they might not vote for a two-party candidate anyway.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago

    There are people who, despite the entirety of human history, fail to take into account that people aren't always rational. In fact, they're deeply offended by the suggestion and become hostile towards anyone who suggests that they should take this into account, even in situations in which the consequences for failing to do so are dire.

  • source
  • parent