PHOENIX (AP) -- The 2024 presidential election is drawing an unusually robust field of independent, third party and long shot candidates hoping to capitalize on Americans' ambivalence and frustration over a likely rematch between Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump.

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[–] 98 points 2 years ago (94 children)

Don't vote for a third party. That's just voting for Trump with extra steps.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 2 years ago (61 children)

    I think a lot of people thinking about voting third party are going to need reasons TO vote for someone, not reasons to not vote for the other guy. Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.

    And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.

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  • [–] 72 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    If a Trump presidency doesn't scare the shit out of them at this point, then they were already looking for excuses to support him, and "I want someone to vote FOR" is just a stupid excuse.

    Like, I want a gazillion dollars and a private island, but I also don't smear shit on the walls of the public library when I wake up and don't get those things. Anyone who does, just wanted to smear shit on the walls.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    I haven't seen Dark Brandon in a while. Like, months.

    I vote FOR Dark Brandon. I'll give Biden my vote over Trump. Those are different things, even if the objective measure looks the same.

    I'd like to vote for DB and get him.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Anyone not terrified of a Republican and/or Trump presidency has a shitton of privilege and needs to fucking check it. Cishet, white and men are prominent demographics for "he won't hurt me too badly" and by the time the redcaps come for those not in lockstep it'll be far, far too late.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (23 children)

    In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I'm becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

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    [–] 60 points 2 years ago (15 children)

    lol if you think I’ve forgotten about the sewage-chugging fest that was the 45th presidency, you’re out of your fucking mind. I’m not thrilled with Biden’s age, but I am dramatically less fucking thrilled with the conservative’s current shitbag choice. Show me a 3rd party with eye-wateringly powerful support from Democrats, and I’ll certainly consider it. But until then, for as long as conservatives are mouth-frothingly determined to usher in fascism unheralded, I won’t be swayed.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    Yup, a bunch of people want to push third party candidates.

    They either ignore the fact that under FPtP (First Past the Post), a third party candidate is always a spoiler candidate, or they've been paid off by conservatives to weaken the chances of Democrats doing the bare minimum and holding on to power that they should have been actually using.

    Which bring up the second evil of FPtP, as long as conservatives are batshit crazy and openly embracing fascism, all the Democrats have to do, it not be conservatives... And sadly, that's a very high bar for them.


    The fix to all of this is, of course, to ditch FPtP voting. My current favorite replacement is called STAR. It's about the single best single winner voting system ever created. (another link)

    For anyone else who finds voting systems fascinating, there's an entire wiki devoted to just that. I'll admit to having read most of it over the last few years. I might need better hobbies.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    I recall learning about STAR a while ago, and I agree that both that FPtP sucks ass, and STAR is vastly better. All we’d need to do is get it instituted to replace FPtP, which is the real hurdle.

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    [+] 46 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (26 children)
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    [–] 40 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Third parties should sit it out until trump is convicted and behind bars. If the third party candidates are serious about the country, they'd recognize the danger that orange moron poses and do just that.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago

    It's always funny to me when these articles claim dems are worried about this No Labels group. It's kinda asinine. That's just not the kinda thing that appeals to dems that much. Makes me almost certain it's just someone writing that kinda wants dems to be worried.

    We, honestly, kinda like labels. They're terribly convenient. Like, when you run into a Jewish-hating, militaristic, strong ethno-state type individual, it's just really nice if there can just be this one word that can be used to describe that person. Because, y'know, "Jewish-hating militaristic ethno-state individual" is just a pain in the ass to use.

    Now, certain types really don't like labels. They like to whine about identity politics for instance. I think they will like this party.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago

    Do they mean weary, or do they mean wary?

    Weary means worn down (it's literally the "wear" as in "wear and tear" with a y on the end to make an adjective), usually signifying tiredness or apathy.

    Wary means overly aware (it's literally the "ware" as in "aware" with a y on the end to make an adjective*), usually signifying nervousness or apprehension.

    Given the context, they could mean either. Or both.

    * Though for orthographic reasons, the e is dropped. I see you, fellow pedants.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Democrats need to appeal to people who are considering leaving for third parties before they lose them.

    This is a controversial statement.

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    [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)
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    [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    Yeah, no one is voting-in a 3rd party. That's just not ever going to be a thing, sorry. And if through some miracle, they somehow did get elected, what the fuck are they going to do? Not a fucking thing. In spite of Trump's best efforts, presidents are not dictators. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are going to work with a president who isn't part of their little clubs. They probably couldn't get approval for a new brand of toilet paper in the white house bathrooms, let alone do anything meaningful.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    People want fine-tuned success when we're still at broad-stroke level of change required.

    This go-around, focus on

    • all people are people
    • everyone gets a vote
    • armed demonstrations get Armed Response
    • lies get lawsuits
    • prisoners get at least Geneva Convention-level treatment

    Later, we can work on the other things we need. You know, allowing for Texit if they build their walls, eminent-domaining prisons back for cruelty reasons, taxing the wealthy, all that. But now, let's just get the absolute basics in.

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