▲ 258 ▼ France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone, spy on people (gazettengr.com) submitted 3 years ago by sibloure@beehaw.org to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one 49 comments fedilink hide all child comments Does anyone know how this even works? Is the technology for this already in place?
[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 42 points 3 years ago (5 children) Commented on this article in another thread https://beehaw.org/comment/586170 Looks like there are caveats to this law: You would need to be a suspect in a crime that has a punishment of 5 or more years in prison in order for the phone to be geolocated. For video/audio you need to fall under the definition of organised crime or terrorism. permalink fedilink source hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 47 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Sure, the issue is that, with no transparency, cops will use it even if they are just courios what they friends are doing. This is already known to happen in the US, where cops used it to stalk their SOs or even in extreme cases women they were starting to date. If they already have the technology in their hands, there is no way to stop them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 10 points 3 years ago (3 children) Technically needs judge's approval permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] markstos@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago Once the tech is in place it can and will be abused. Also, non-police can find how to access the backdoor. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago A back door is a security vulnerability, even if the police never abuse such a power. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 10 points 3 years ago* (1 child) They should also need it in the US. The issue is, that if the tool is in the hands of the cops, there is no way to check who they spied on (and therefore if they had warrant). At least if it was executed by a comercial entity, they can check the warrants and be liable if they do it without one. But that is very likely not how it will be implemented. The cops will get the tools to do with as they please. As an example, one state in the US (forgot which one) put in a law that requires the police to submit every data search warrant into a public database so that they could be audited by the public. After they compared the contents of the database to number of requests in companies transparency reports, it turned out there were over 5 times as many requests in the state then what was reported in the database, despite reporting being required by law. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I really hope the power isn't abused. The second it is it will lead to more riots and even though I have in no way been directly affected where I live, it is a pain to get messages from friends abroad asking "Why is France on fire again?" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) On one hand, I do want to ask why Frebch people love setting France on fire so much. On the other hand, when shit like this passes as laws, I wonder why we are not setting our countries on fire... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent [–] matlag@sh.itjust.works 19 points 3 years ago (1 child) After a terrorist attack, emergency state was declared (nomally used in case a war actually put the survival of the country's institutions in jeopardy). First use of the extra-powers: assign some targeted pacific climate activist at home so that there would not be a protest during the COP. Anti-terrorism bill was passed some time ago. It was used to repress the protests against the retirement bill, literally banning anyone from carrying a saucepan in the street (ban of "noise emitting devices") during a protest. Climate protesters have been labeled "eco-terrorist" even though they never put nor attempted to put anyone's life in danger. France is under requests from the UN for fixing severe issues regarding right to protest, police excessive violence and systematic racism in the police force. France is taking a dire path, joining Hungaria, Turkey in authoritarism, maybe evolving to a clone of Russia, as there were hint of a will to change the constitution to let Macron run again after his second mandate. I have 0 trust this bill is intended to be used for severe crimes. It's another attempt to control and repress. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 3 points 3 years ago Yep some of my friends left France in part for that reason - the government and police are becoming increasingly authoritarian and they left not wanting to wait for things to get worse. And they're just super nice, normal people but they could see the wiring on the wall. 😞 permalink fedilink source parent [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (2 children) It's so stupid that beehaw defederated from Lemmy world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sidhant@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) Such is the power of federation. Beehaw can choose to do so, and it'll be interesting to see how the fragmentation issue plays out permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Yeah, I get it. It just seems like admins making a decision for an entire instance of users that they can't see the most popular instance anymore. It was the first instance I joined too, which is the only reason I think about it. But Lemmy World so far is awesome and doing great things for Lemmy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 2 points 3 years ago You can always use Kbin instead which is still federated with all. permalink fedilink source parent [–] webghost0101@lemmy.fmhy.ml 9 points 3 years ago Those caveats are just to get the laws passes. Online piracy already carries punishment up to 3 years. All it takes them is make a law that technically holds 5 years but gets pardoned in practice. Labeling someone a terrorist can be as simple as “collective undertaking with the aim of seriously disturbing public order through intimidation” aka protesting.. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Oh ok then, that’s fine. I’ve got nothing to hide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] narc0tic_bird@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) Ur comment is probably /s, but username does not check out for having an alt account with "nothing to hide" :D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 point 3 years ago lol, I’m using my alt bc beehaw seems to be acting up rn, but it made for a happy accident. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 7 points 3 years ago Ha, I'm sure... They'll spy the heck out of everyone. At the judge's discretion, of course 😉 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 47 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Sure, the issue is that, with no transparency, cops will use it even if they are just courios what they friends are doing. This is already known to happen in the US, where cops used it to stalk their SOs or even in extreme cases women they were starting to date. If they already have the technology in their hands, there is no way to stop them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 10 points 3 years ago (3 children) Technically needs judge's approval permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] markstos@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago Once the tech is in place it can and will be abused. Also, non-police can find how to access the backdoor. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago A back door is a security vulnerability, even if the police never abuse such a power. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 10 points 3 years ago* (1 child) They should also need it in the US. The issue is, that if the tool is in the hands of the cops, there is no way to check who they spied on (and therefore if they had warrant). At least if it was executed by a comercial entity, they can check the warrants and be liable if they do it without one. But that is very likely not how it will be implemented. The cops will get the tools to do with as they please. As an example, one state in the US (forgot which one) put in a law that requires the police to submit every data search warrant into a public database so that they could be audited by the public. After they compared the contents of the database to number of requests in companies transparency reports, it turned out there were over 5 times as many requests in the state then what was reported in the database, despite reporting being required by law. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I really hope the power isn't abused. The second it is it will lead to more riots and even though I have in no way been directly affected where I live, it is a pain to get messages from friends abroad asking "Why is France on fire again?" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) On one hand, I do want to ask why Frebch people love setting France on fire so much. On the other hand, when shit like this passes as laws, I wonder why we are not setting our countries on fire... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 10 points 3 years ago (3 children) Technically needs judge's approval permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] markstos@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago Once the tech is in place it can and will be abused. Also, non-police can find how to access the backdoor. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago A back door is a security vulnerability, even if the police never abuse such a power. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 10 points 3 years ago* (1 child) They should also need it in the US. The issue is, that if the tool is in the hands of the cops, there is no way to check who they spied on (and therefore if they had warrant). At least if it was executed by a comercial entity, they can check the warrants and be liable if they do it without one. But that is very likely not how it will be implemented. The cops will get the tools to do with as they please. As an example, one state in the US (forgot which one) put in a law that requires the police to submit every data search warrant into a public database so that they could be audited by the public. After they compared the contents of the database to number of requests in companies transparency reports, it turned out there were over 5 times as many requests in the state then what was reported in the database, despite reporting being required by law. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I really hope the power isn't abused. The second it is it will lead to more riots and even though I have in no way been directly affected where I live, it is a pain to get messages from friends abroad asking "Why is France on fire again?" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) On one hand, I do want to ask why Frebch people love setting France on fire so much. On the other hand, when shit like this passes as laws, I wonder why we are not setting our countries on fire... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] markstos@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago Once the tech is in place it can and will be abused. Also, non-police can find how to access the backdoor. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago A back door is a security vulnerability, even if the police never abuse such a power. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 10 points 3 years ago* (1 child) They should also need it in the US. The issue is, that if the tool is in the hands of the cops, there is no way to check who they spied on (and therefore if they had warrant). At least if it was executed by a comercial entity, they can check the warrants and be liable if they do it without one. But that is very likely not how it will be implemented. The cops will get the tools to do with as they please. As an example, one state in the US (forgot which one) put in a law that requires the police to submit every data search warrant into a public database so that they could be audited by the public. After they compared the contents of the database to number of requests in companies transparency reports, it turned out there were over 5 times as many requests in the state then what was reported in the database, despite reporting being required by law. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I really hope the power isn't abused. The second it is it will lead to more riots and even though I have in no way been directly affected where I live, it is a pain to get messages from friends abroad asking "Why is France on fire again?" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) On one hand, I do want to ask why Frebch people love setting France on fire so much. On the other hand, when shit like this passes as laws, I wonder why we are not setting our countries on fire... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I really hope the power isn't abused. The second it is it will lead to more riots and even though I have in no way been directly affected where I live, it is a pain to get messages from friends abroad asking "Why is France on fire again?" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) On one hand, I do want to ask why Frebch people love setting France on fire so much. On the other hand, when shit like this passes as laws, I wonder why we are not setting our countries on fire... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MajesticFlame@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) On one hand, I do want to ask why Frebch people love setting France on fire so much. On the other hand, when shit like this passes as laws, I wonder why we are not setting our countries on fire... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 3 years ago I've lived here since 2006 and I haven't met a single person that participated in any of the riots, which are offshoots of sanctioned strikes and do not represent France as a whole. I've had some students that strike for the environment or maybe do walkouts. The closest I came to one was a strike about police violence and I happened to be in a café and had to evacuate because of year gas. In that instance, it turned out the person they were striking for lied. So, I can't say why they want to destroy stuff. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] matlag@sh.itjust.works 19 points 3 years ago (1 child) After a terrorist attack, emergency state was declared (nomally used in case a war actually put the survival of the country's institutions in jeopardy). First use of the extra-powers: assign some targeted pacific climate activist at home so that there would not be a protest during the COP. Anti-terrorism bill was passed some time ago. It was used to repress the protests against the retirement bill, literally banning anyone from carrying a saucepan in the street (ban of "noise emitting devices") during a protest. Climate protesters have been labeled "eco-terrorist" even though they never put nor attempted to put anyone's life in danger. France is under requests from the UN for fixing severe issues regarding right to protest, police excessive violence and systematic racism in the police force. France is taking a dire path, joining Hungaria, Turkey in authoritarism, maybe evolving to a clone of Russia, as there were hint of a will to change the constitution to let Macron run again after his second mandate. I have 0 trust this bill is intended to be used for severe crimes. It's another attempt to control and repress. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 3 points 3 years ago Yep some of my friends left France in part for that reason - the government and police are becoming increasingly authoritarian and they left not wanting to wait for things to get worse. And they're just super nice, normal people but they could see the wiring on the wall. 😞 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 3 points 3 years ago Yep some of my friends left France in part for that reason - the government and police are becoming increasingly authoritarian and they left not wanting to wait for things to get worse. And they're just super nice, normal people but they could see the wiring on the wall. 😞 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (2 children) It's so stupid that beehaw defederated from Lemmy world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sidhant@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) Such is the power of federation. Beehaw can choose to do so, and it'll be interesting to see how the fragmentation issue plays out permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Yeah, I get it. It just seems like admins making a decision for an entire instance of users that they can't see the most popular instance anymore. It was the first instance I joined too, which is the only reason I think about it. But Lemmy World so far is awesome and doing great things for Lemmy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 2 points 3 years ago You can always use Kbin instead which is still federated with all. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sidhant@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) Such is the power of federation. Beehaw can choose to do so, and it'll be interesting to see how the fragmentation issue plays out permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Yeah, I get it. It just seems like admins making a decision for an entire instance of users that they can't see the most popular instance anymore. It was the first instance I joined too, which is the only reason I think about it. But Lemmy World so far is awesome and doing great things for Lemmy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Yeah, I get it. It just seems like admins making a decision for an entire instance of users that they can't see the most popular instance anymore. It was the first instance I joined too, which is the only reason I think about it. But Lemmy World so far is awesome and doing great things for Lemmy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 2 points 3 years ago You can always use Kbin instead which is still federated with all. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] webghost0101@lemmy.fmhy.ml 9 points 3 years ago Those caveats are just to get the laws passes. Online piracy already carries punishment up to 3 years. All it takes them is make a law that technically holds 5 years but gets pardoned in practice. Labeling someone a terrorist can be as simple as “collective undertaking with the aim of seriously disturbing public order through intimidation” aka protesting.. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Oh ok then, that’s fine. I’ve got nothing to hide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] narc0tic_bird@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) Ur comment is probably /s, but username does not check out for having an alt account with "nothing to hide" :D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 point 3 years ago lol, I’m using my alt bc beehaw seems to be acting up rn, but it made for a happy accident. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 7 points 3 years ago Ha, I'm sure... They'll spy the heck out of everyone. At the judge's discretion, of course 😉 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] narc0tic_bird@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) Ur comment is probably /s, but username does not check out for having an alt account with "nothing to hide" :D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 point 3 years ago lol, I’m using my alt bc beehaw seems to be acting up rn, but it made for a happy accident. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 point 3 years ago lol, I’m using my alt bc beehaw seems to be acting up rn, but it made for a happy accident. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 7 points 3 years ago Ha, I'm sure... They'll spy the heck out of everyone. At the judge's discretion, of course 😉 permalink fedilink source parent