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[–] 200 points 3 years ago (20 children)

I don't know, this person has done a lot of decent things in his life. I'm not inclined to judge him by his worst decision.

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  • [–] 139 points 3 years ago (9 children)

    While I would tend to agree, if I'm reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing... meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.

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  • [–] 169 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (6 children)

    He's also an old friend.

    I don't believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn't get it, doesn't make them monsters or rapists by proxy.

    If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.

    Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn't all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.

    Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our "justice," lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people... that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee's failure to confirm their biases.

    Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn't be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it's convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.

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  • [–] 60 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Or... we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don't give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don't need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 years ago* (8 children)

    Thank you for making my point.

    Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?

    So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!

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  • [–] 67 points 3 years ago (24 children)

    Don't be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution... AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse... I'd absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.

    There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There's zero chance that I'd do anything to "put in a good word" for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.

    Tl;Dr: If you're vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn't being a duplicitous rapist... that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren't raping. You're also a victim.

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  • [–] 36 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Except this isn't about Masterson. This is about Kutcher's support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that's not a friend. That's someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you've hidden that from me, I'm not going to tell a judge you're an otherwise good person that shouldn't be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 years ago

    I'm not saying that we need to flog the guilty. I'm just saying that we don't need to offer him more help than anyone else would get. Is Kutcher writing letters to every judge involved in a rape case and asking for them to go easy because the perp was a youth pastor? Justice is supposed to be blind. If celebrities, politicians, etc. get special treatment then we aren't working to fix society, we are letting people in power run around doing whatever the fuck they want. Masterson should receive all the help the justice system affords a rapist, but not one bit more, and definitely not because he has celebrity friends writing letters on his behalf.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 years ago

    Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However.. the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That's a bad fucking look. That's a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he's done look.

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  • [–] 21 points 3 years ago*

    Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn't grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they're free to do that. But disapproving of that isn't guilt by association, that's just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.

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  • [–] 62 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Although I tend to agree, I think this was also the correct decision. He would have distracted from the good work the organisation does.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago

    While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.

    The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.

    https://www.thorn.org/blog/encryption-trend-threatens-child-safety-gains/

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  • [–] 27 points 3 years ago (10 children)

    Get out of here with your reason. That's not what the internet is for. Now, would you like a torch or pitchfork?

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  • [–] 24 points 3 years ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    If that isn’t already the name of some obscure software or package/library/etc I’ll be disappointed it already sounds like I need to import it into my Python code idk what it does but without it shit just crashes

    The Torchfork really ties the program together

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  • [–] 23 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I think it's fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That's a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    directly involved with covering up a rapist

    This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that's a gigantic leap.

    his true character

    And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person's character, a mistake presumably you'd never make?

    I think it's fair to judge

    No, you think it's fun to judge and it's your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You've made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it "fair"?

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  • [–] 20 points 3 years ago

    His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 years ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

    Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    OK, now think of this from the perspective of the victims of Danny Masterson's crimes - what do you think they feel about Ashton's letter of support?

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