cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/72815981

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[–] [S] 10 points 1 day ago (5 children)

they're not necessarily irredeemable people any more than the German people were after WW2

Very big clarification here and not in defense of Germans who voted for fascism. The German citizenry didn't know that the Holocaust was happening and that's well documented.

Israelis know exactly what's happening. Israeli civilians have blocked aid trucks, openly hold pogroms, brag about it on their socials, politicians have it on their election campaign, and people publicly call for killing of Palestinian children because "they are future terrorists".

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago

    This is a very important point. I actually have a leftwing Israeli friend, and he has sent me videos that he's taken from his own balcony where hordes of Israelis are marching through the street chanting "death to Arabs". The quantity of these marches is totally ignored in mainstream media of course.

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  • [–] 3 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

    That's a fair rebuttal but that just means our job is probably even harder, but not that it's any different. It's not like we can, or should just decide the entire population of Israel is irredeemable. What happens then? We start a genocide against them? Maybe some people would like that, but I don't. How is that any better? I acknowledge that it's important to understand where they are coming from and where the support is coming from, and I'm not trying to pretend I have a magic "solution" I'm trying to sell, but our efforts to stop or even recognize this genocide against palestinians haven't gone very far. I appreciate that we're even talking about it. It's a step in the right direction and I absolutely acknowledge so much more needs to be done. I'm afraid it will probably come too late for most palestinians, but all I can do is put my lever against the scales and try to push it, I doubt if I can tip the scales, but at least I'll try.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

    Nobody said anything about a genocide and I don't know anyone that's asked for it.

    Israel needs to be treated like apartheid South Africa, a full embargo until the racist state breaks. When you remove the power dynamics that allow an ethno-supremacist state to exist then it will crumble.

    International allies need to continue to be vocal, petition their governments, rally in support of BDS, regular direct action, protests and blockades at ports - these are all happening now and need to continue and grow.

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  • [–] 2 points 22 hours ago (1 child)

    Right, and that sounds perfectly sensible. As I said, I'm not pretending I have any solution to this problem and my goal is not to stand in the way of any reasonable efforts to stop the ongoing genocide. My caution is just to make the point against demonizing the whole people because it's really easy to do in this situation, and whether ethically they deserve it or not, I am certain it's not the answer and it's not going to solve the problem, it will just make it worse.

    My concern is that's exactly the kind of attitude that leads to more violence, death, and can ultimately be used to promote genocide, and extermination in retaliation. That's how they justify their genocide against palestinians in the first place, and I am allergic to the kind of thinking that would justify that against anyone. It's an unjustifiable position. People are just people, humans are just humans, individuals can be evil but people are not inherently evil on a mass scale, it's the systems they are placed in, manipulated and controlled by evil and malicious people who have been empowered by those systems, that make them do evil and behave as if they are evil. They're just indoctrinated people, I refuse to dehumanize them, even when they are acting like they deserve it.

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