I (23M) had an abusive upbringing. In early childhood, my father beat me and told me I was weak when I cried out in pain and begged for mercy. Since then, I learned that I was unlovable because I expressed vulnerability and neediness instead of silently enduring the pain, and that others would expect me to be strong and take things "like a man."

As I grew up, I got better and better at hiding my pain. But because I so rarely experienced any kind of affection or positive attention, I never learned to hide pleasure.

I compared myself a lot to men in pornography. It seemed like nothing fazed them, even as women did things to them that could make me faint. These men had incredible endurance and could stay in control of themselves as they made manly grunts. I was a failure in comparison.

I do not make manly grunts. I sound like Mickey goddamn Mouse. I unlock 3 new octaves of vocal range and tremble and blush and hyperventilate like crazy. I'm so embarrassed about it. I see videos of men receiving oral and think "Holy shit, HOW is that guy still standing? He's not even shaking!?" And then I think there's no way in hell that women would put up with my effeminate whines if strong guys who can withstand a woman's attention with little more than a few grunts are everywhere.

I came up with all these sexist lies about women to reassure myself that there was no risk of being touched by them and I was in control. "Porn is just fiction and the actresses lie when they express pleasure or interest; in reality, women don't initiate or reciprocate touch in real life because they're sexually passive and men are the pursuers. Women don't want to touch men because they are wired to receive pleasure, not give it. Also, women have to constantly fear being stalked and harassed by men, so I am doing the right thing by staying as far away from them as possible. Besides, I'm too much of a sensitive crybaby to be attractive to women anyway. So I'm safe. Sure, I live in a touch-starved hellscape, but I'll never have to worry about a woman touching and exploring my body and having naughty thoughts about me, let alone acting on them."

But it's about time I drop the bullshit and be honest.

I'm terrified of being touched by women I'm attracted to because I fear that they would ruthlessly mock me when I inevitably lose my composure and melt into a flustered, needy, giggly, grateful puddle. After all, that's what happened the last time I was openly emotive, way back in childhood when I cried out for mercy. None of my generalizations about women are true, and my avoidance of women doesn't actually make the world better. I am not helping anyone or acting rationally by doing this; I am just avoiding the possibility of being seen when I'm an emotional mess.

I was hoping that no woman would ever sexually desire me because then I would never have to worry about being seen. There were a couple of incidents in school where someone groped me and ran off before I could see who they were, and I automatically assumed at the time that the perpetrator was a guy, because the possibility of them being a girl was far more dangerous to my psyche.

I have these pervasive fantasies that a woman would find my flustered collapse incredibly cute and sexy. Rather than chastising me, she would be really sweet and flirtatious and enjoy sensually melting me at my own pace so as not to overwhelm me. My fear tries to convince me that this outcome isn't possible. But every day, I gain just a little bit more hope that it actually is, and the fear and shame lose just a little bit more power.

I know that Lemmy isn't a substitute for professional help, which is why I have also been going to therapy, but I think it would help a lot if others could tell me what a partner's positive experience of my responses might look like or share how they dealt with similar insecurities and communicated about them with their partner.

What do you think?

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[–] [S] -1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

So basically, the porn stuff is all bullshit and what really matters is building trust, being attentive, and showing your partner that you're enthusiastic for them? So then if you sound like kind of a goofball sometimes, it's just kind of cute and funny rather than a deal-breaker?

Obviously women aren't a monolith, but I'm imagining it might be something like that.

This narrow focus on not sounding silly is distracting me from those aspects. Maybe you're right that this is just one small part of our connection and the mental and emotional bandwidth it's taking up in my head is far more damaging to the relationship than my reactions themselves.

I'm also kind of assuming that even if not every response I have isn't the hottest thing in the world to my partner, she would be willing to throw away everything else and leave just because of that.

I guess when you think about the insecurity like that, it makes a lot less sense. All the time I could be spending being present with my partner and thinking about how to make her happy instead goes into obsessing over a performance that I don't even know she wants. Then I can't meet her needs because I can only think about myself. Maybe I can make a playful joke or two about being really sensitive or making silly sounds, but having constant anxiety over it is counterproductive.

Maybe connections are more than just one thing and more than just "being a man," whatever the hell that means at this point.

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  • [–] 2 points 19 hours ago (1 child)

    That porn is bullshit goes without saying. You're looking at men selected for performance and endurance and bodily control most of us don't have, performing in an environment that is not sexy.

    And there are different kinds of masculinity most of which have nothing to do with sexual performance. Also I would suggest lots of women love a vocally expressive partner while most guys are pretty quiet, based on conversations I've had. So what you think is a negative might be a positive in some cases. Shrug

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 18 hours ago

    Yeah, the "most guys are pretty quiet" thing is what has been tripping me up. That led me to a chain of reasoning like:

    Most guys aren't vocal during sex → Women don't expect guys to be vocal during sex → Women would get turned off by guys who are vocal during sex.

    And of course, all of this hinges on treating men and women as monoliths with deterministic behavior rather than individuals with individual tastes, preferences, and openness to new experiences.

    I think I'll probably encounter a lot of women who still like more conventionally manly men. But where I've gone wrong is believing that my worth is contingent upon how popular my physical and emotional traits are, and that a woman rejecting me confirms that Dad was right. That way of thinking is my weakness, and it prevents me from thinking about positive things that will help me better connect with others because I am too busy hating myself over something that isn't even a real flaw. It's like saying that I'm worse than everyone else because my favorite color is yellow when red, green, and blue are more popular. Just because I like a less popular color doesn't mean I'm incompatible with people who like the other colors.

    So I think the solution is to embrace liking the color yellow and stop worrying about the other colors. It's to work on cultivating the sweet, silly, caring masculinity I want to embody and trust that there will be others who like it. Maybe I'll end up with a woman who wants to see me get dramatically flustered and melty during sex because it's telegraphed by the rest of my personality.

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