There is a leaked document of the proposal related to EU KIDS Act , which proposes requiring age verification for all online games. Also note that this proposal is not anywhere near to pass. But it exists and is going to be dicussed

Stop Killing the Internet initiative

If you're EU citizen sign this petition: https://eci.ec.europa.eu/066/public/

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQRcK9nYg9g

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[–] 14 points 15 hours ago (7 children)

Let me ask you this: you're a 10- to 18-year-old kid, maybe younger. You live with your parents, you have some kind of game console, or perhaps a computer your parents bought for you or use themselves. One day, you tell your parents, "I want to play Grand Theft Auto."

Your parents essentially have to purchase the game for you, because a retailer isn't going to sell a mature-rated game directly to a child. If you're buying it digitally through Steam or another online store, you generally need a payment method, which again means your parents are involved in the transaction.

So what exactly is age verification at the game or operating-system level supposed to accomplish?

The purchasing process is already, by its nature, an age-gated process. If a parent is willing to purchase a mature-rated game for their child and allow that child to play it, then the parent has already made that decision. If the parent is irresponsible enough to allow their child to play violent or otherwise age-restricted games without supervision, that is a separate parenting issue. I don't see how forcing developers, publishers, distributors, or operating-system manufacturers to verify the child's age meaningfully addresses that problem.

That's what I don't understand about these laws: what is the actual benefit?

From a political perspective, I don't see an obvious constituency demanding this. I don't see how it provides a significant benefit to corporations, either. It doesn't seem particularly popular or politically consequential because the issue is so niche. So what is actually driving this?

I'm not saying there has to be some grand conspiracy behind it. But if there is a rational explanation for why governments keep pursuing increasingly complicated age-verification requirements, I'd genuinely like to understand what it is. Is this primarily about liability? Political signaling? Pressure from advocacy groups? Regulatory precedent? Or is the government simply trying to establish a broader principle that online services should be responsible for determining the age of their users?

Then there's the technological problem.

The infrastructure simply isn't designed around reliable age verification. Take operating systems as an example. A law can require an operating system to verify the age of its users, but that doesn't mean the operating system actually has reliable access to that information. Windows and macOS may be able to integrate age verification through accounts or other identity systems, but what happens on Linux? What mechanism is the operating system supposed to use to determine whether the person sitting at the keyboard is 12, 22, or 52?

And even if you solve that problem, you haven't necessarily solved the underlying problem. A child can use a parent's account, a shared computer, a friend's device, or any number of other arrangements. You can build increasingly elaborate verification systems, but ultimately you still run into the fact that parents control the devices, accounts, and purchases in the home.

So I keep coming back to the same question: what problem is this actually solving that existing parental control systems and the purchasing process don't already address?

I'm not opposed to reasonable protections for children online. I'm questioning whether mandatory age verification actually provides enough additional protection to justify the enormous technological and regulatory infrastructure required to implement it.

Because if the practical result is simply that the government requires companies to verify something that parents are already responsible for controlling, then I'm having a difficult time seeing what meaningful benefit we're getting in exchange for all of this additional regulation.

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  • [–] 6 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

    Your scenario is like 10-20 years out of date.

    Actual scenario: You are a kid with a phone or computer, you download one of the literally thousands of wildly popular free to play games on your device like Fortnite, and you begin playing immediately.

    With F2P there is no payment barrier, which is why this sort of thing is coming up now. The constituency asking for it is parents who are having a difficult time telling their kid that they can’t be playing the popular thing that all their friends are playing.

    Whether you agree with this approach or not is a separate issue, I’m not saying this is a good thing or well thought out. But the scenario and motivation are clear. The various industry rating systems worked when that was the only way to release a game, not so much when the most popular and high budget games are free.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 hours ago

    I second the call of “bullshit”. As a parent of a teenager the last thing I fucking want is some pedo billionaire asking for my kids ID.

    There are so many things wrong with that. Soooooo many things.

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  • [–] 8 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

    The constituency asking for it is parents who are having a difficult time telling their kid that they can’t be playing the popular thing that all their friends are playing.

    Bullshit, the constituency asking for this is the tech sector, probably primarily advertisers, and governments wanting to keep tabs on their citizens.

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  • [–] 0 points 12 hours ago* (1 child)

    Two things:

    1. This is the EU, not the US. The forces you’re talking about don’t have nearly as much power there, American tech companies hate EU regulation and if they had as much power there as you presume, they would have killed DMA or GDPR first.

    2. You might try actually talking to a parent trying to raise kids in this day and age before dismissing my comment out of hand. I assure you the demographic I’m talking about absolutely does exist.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 hours ago*

    I'm sure the parents exist, but my point is that they aren't the driving force. There's no way this age verification stuff starts popping up all over the world at about the same time with all these governments seriously considering it at the behest of parents. The parents aren't coordinated enough to drive international change like that, and it's not a high enough priority for them to all independently and coincidentally push for it, not to the level seen around the world. The only things that universally move governments like that are moneyed interests and power, and while I'll admit I may be wrong about the exact forces driving it, I don't see much chance at all this is organically driven by parents.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 15 hours ago (1 child)

    Yea you hadn't have to write an entire scenario to say that this proposal is technically undoable, unsustainable, surveilling, cures the consequence instead of cause, and is surveillance proposal packaged as child safety

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