Excerpt:

The doctor who performed the Netherlands’ first case of euthanasia on a child under 12 did so with due care, the supervising committee concluded after investigating. The patient, a child of nearly 2 years who suffered from several severe medical conditions, died at the end of 2025.

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[–] 3 points 3 days ago (3 children)

The amount of people on the other track is meaningful, true, but the point I made stands just as well with 5 people instead of 5 million. Latter just highlights the dissonance we all battle with within ourselves when sweating the dilemma. But it’s the same hyperbole the hospital analogy does, so in reality it’s the same in taking the original problem and stretching it out to absurd proportions to make the point.

Even so, the doctor dilemma you present is a worthwhile one to get anxious about in its own right anyway, and I’m not saying it’s not. Just different. If the question was not that you are the doctor, but a person with a lever, pulling of which would send a nurse to take the otherwise healthy man to be cut up for parts to save the 5 others, then we’d be in the same realm. The trolley analogue of your dilemma would be that you are the conductor, perhaps, and as the conductor may choose to change tracks or not. Being an active party already in play is different than being a bystander forced in the situation without connection other than the action, or lack of one, to take.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Fair enough.

    I have some thoughts on the active/passive proposal you mentioned in your second paragraph, and I'm not sure whether I sit on the side of it being irrelevant or still equivalent. Possibly both. The choice is ultimately still the same, and I don't think it necessarily changes the moral calculus if you're a conductor/doctor/bystander.

    But my solution to the trolley problem is still to not flip the switch.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

    Yeah it’s entirely valid, it’s intended to be a tough problem with different answers depending on who answers. I was just trying to elaborate on the other side of it since initially you seemed to imply there’s a “correct” answer which is yours, so I just gave my view on it with similar confidence to illustrate there isn’t one. All sides of it can be morally justified and since there isn’t any good choices there at all, by design, it’s kind of easy to lose sight of that.

    And yeah, essentially the dilemmas are of the same form, but I believe it’s meaningful whether one is “supposed” to be there making the choices vs. someone from outside the situation that isn’t normally expected to be making the choice. If the conductor that drives the train chooses not to pull the lever, it’s different from a bystander choosing not to. The latter can more easily justify not participating, the former simply can’t, because it’s their very job to make that choice, and the levers being a part of the framework within which they work day to day, should make inaction much more significant and unseemly. Same for the doctor making the choices, but on top of that, there are the extra layers of having made the doctor’s oath, which a bystander wouldn’t have made, and also the fact that a bystander can’t be expected to know the implications and details and applicability of “cutting to pieces” someone like mechanical spare parts, which I assume isn’t as easy as that and a doctor would know to calculate that into it, unlike a civilian.

    But I digress. Just wanted to illustrate that the choice not to act is not “correct” since by design there can not be a correct answer. But correct for you is valid. It seemed weird to talk about it as if it was objective so I got a bit sidetracked to throw my several handfuls of cents in.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    I agree. I do also have a tendency to speak with a certain absolutism.

    In my experience, scientific type folks (like me) tend to aim to speak with accuracy, which when it comes to science involves worda like "suggests", "supports", "probable", etc.

    Marketing type folks tend to speak in black and white. "Is" "will do", that type of thing.

    I think this is the fundamental messaging issue on the left, both in the liberal and in the left left sense. Right wing folks speak in certainties, which is a much stronger message to the layman when compared to words that, for lack of better term, hedge their bets on potential future evidence.

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