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[–] 2 points 3 days ago (21 children)

Right, but if landlords are exiting the market that probably means they are selling to someone who wants to live there, meaning rental properties are going off the market. Which is good for first time homebuyers but bad for renters. Either that or this is just landlords consolidating which which wont make much of a difference either way.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (6 children)

    The first time buyer was previously renting though, so the renter could go there. Total number of people and houses hasn't changed in this simplified example.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (5 children)

    Right but a lot of renters cannot or do not want to buy property. Thus, rental units leaving the market creates a supply demand imbalance in the rent market, driving up prices (and driving down property prices, for the inverse reason)

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (4 children)

    Plenty of renters do want to buy and house prices coming down would allow that for some of them. If no one buys it and the landlord wants to sell, all they can do is lower the price until someone does buy it.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    Right. We are in agreement that this should cause some reduction in property prices.

    But not all renters are able to buy property. Here's an extreme example - lets say 99.9% of landlords are forced to sell their rental homes. There are now just 100 units left in all of London.

    There are 10000 students who need a temporary place to stay, and another 10000 people that have bad credit and cant get a mortgage. What will happen to rental prices?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Then who will buy those properties? If we have 100 houses for 100 groups of people, mixed renting and owning. Then 20 landlords sell. Who are they selling to if no one can afford it?

    They have to reduce the price until someone can.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Yes, again, I agree with you that the landlords will have to reduce their prices because there will be a temporary housing glut. Although, they might just let them sit unused off the market until prices recover.

    But the houses will get sold. There's a housing shortage everywhere.

    Yes, in your scenario, assuming that all the houses must be sold and nobody is allowed to buy a second home (which would happen in the real world as the prices drop) and nobody becomes homeless (which would also happen), all those houses would go to previous renters. The remaining renters are those who are in the most financially weak situation - even as property prices drop and rental prices go up they still couldn't afford to buy before the market stabilized. In this market there is now going to be pressure driving down the prices of homes and driving up the price of rentals.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    Empty houses contribute more tax in some parts of the country where councils have been given permission to raise taxes on empty properties. IIRC it is up to 4x the normal rate.

    Similar things could easily be rolled out where its a problem. Especially given that we already have working examples in the UK. Though its more about holiday homes, the same applies.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago* (13 children)

    When someone decides to sell a good because market conditions have changed, the price of the good goes down.

    Rental prices are proportional to overall housing prices. In general, more homeowners is correlated with lower rents. Renters are also removed from the market.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (12 children)

    When someone decides to sell a good because market conditions have changed, the price of the good goes down

    Yes i agree with that part

    Rental prices are proportional to overall housing prices. In general, more homeowners is correlated with lower rents. Renters are also removed from the market.

    That is correlation without causation. When there isn't enough housing, rent and property prices will both be high. However, if properties get taken off the rental market and are put up for sale instead, with no changes to population or overall housing supply, that is going to drive up rental prices. There will be fewer people renting, by necessity, but the people who want or need to rent will not change by as much, creating an imbalance between supply and demand that will drive up rental prices.

    Not to mention another thing we haven't touched on which is why landlords are leaving in the first place. Those who remain in the now-less-profitable environment may try to raise rent to compensate.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (11 children)

    There will be fewer people renting, by necessity, but the people who want or need to rent will not change by as much, creating an imbalance between supply and demand that will drive up rental prices.

    Why would demand not change by as much as supply, if both a buyer and a seller have been removed from the rental market? It's like landlords being forced to sell to tenants at a reduced price.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (10 children)

    Because having your rental unit taken away from you does not remove you from the rental market. You might consider leaving the rental market and buying property if housing prices collapse, but outside of that most people are going to have to look around for a new rental unit in a now tighter market.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (9 children)

    It does remove another renter, though. The market would only be tighter if they reduced supply by more than demand.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (8 children)

    How does being evicted remove a renter from the rental market?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    The new homeowner is the renter removed from the market, not the previous renter.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (6 children)

    That's a big assumption that the new homeowner was a previous renter and not just someone cohabiting or buying an additional home.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (5 children)

    Not when we're looking at large groups of people - there's no reason to think the average number of occupants per home would change.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (4 children)

    I didnt mention anything about the average number of occupants per home. What i did say was that, if 100 homes go from being rented to being sold, not all 100 homes will go to previous renters, for the reasons I mentioned above. Doesn't that make sense?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (3 children)

    If the average number of occupants isn't changing, then cohabitation and second houses are irrelevant to this discussion.

    To whom is the apartment being sold?

    • If it's another landlord, then supply and demand haven't changed.
    • If it's anyone's former tenant, then both supply and demand are reduced by 1 on average, so rentals don't get more expensive.

    Perhaps you can find some statistics to back up your general point? If you're right, then we should see the opposite correlation - higher homeownership with higher rents.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    The average number of occupants doesn't change because everyone will still be living somewhere (excluding homelessness but we can ignore that). However, that does not mean cohabitation and second houses are irrelevant.

    • Some people who were previously cohabiting (not renting) will buy homes
    • Some people will buy second (or third, etc) houses.

    Both of these scenarios are excluded from your example above. As a consequence of them, some renters will have to start cohabiting (or become homeless). The fact that there are more people who want to rent their (own) place then there are rental units will drive up rental prices.

    https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/aer.20181289

    Here you go.

    Using a 1994 law change, we exploit quasi-experimental variation in the assignment of rent control in San Francisco to study its impacts on tenants and landlords. Leveraging new data tracking individuals’ migration, we find rent control limits renters’ mobility by 20 percent and lowers displacement from San Francisco. Landlords treated by rent control reduce rental housing supplies by 15 percent by selling to owner-occupants and redeveloping buildings. Thus, while rent control prevents displacement of incumbent renters in the short run, the lost rental housing supply likely drove up market rents in the long run, ultimately undermining the goals of the law.

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