▲ 279 ▼ GrapheneOS defends use of AI for coding (grapheneos.social) submitted 1 month ago by General_Effort@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world 345 comments fedilink hide all child comments GrapheneOS is currently defending its use of AI coding tools on Mastodon against complaints by various accounts claiming to be users. We do not understand where you're coming from or why you're so incredibly angry with us. It's not justified and does not make sense.
[+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago (8 children) Supposedly wonderful “human artisanal code” has plenty of fuckery. These are supply chain attacks and in the case of xz utils, the attacker had gone to extreme lenghts to hide the attack from a well-meaning, good-hearthed but overworked and burnt out solo maintainer. To compare this to bugs that people unwittingly introduce in normal human-written code is not sincere. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 1 month ago (6 children) Okay, but they still happen with orders of magnitude less frequency than bugs in AI code. Consider that the time between when rsync first adopted LLM-generated code and users en masse reporting rsync internal protocol errors during a backup was on the order of months. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) The author of that article admits that the sample size is not large enough to draw meaningful conclusions. But besides that, I believe LLM code generators can be a useful tool, provided you are willing to go over their output with a fine-tooth comb and assume it is broken until you have proven otherwise, because the hallucination problem is inherent to the technology and they're never going to completely solve it, and are willing to overlook the myriad ethical issues with all major LLMs in existence today. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago I froze my rsync package the day that was announced. fuck the dev :( permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago (8 children) Supposedly wonderful “human artisanal code” has plenty of fuckery. These are supply chain attacks and in the case of xz utils, the attacker had gone to extreme lenghts to hide the attack from a well-meaning, good-hearthed but overworked and burnt out solo maintainer. To compare this to bugs that people unwittingly introduce in normal human-written code is not sincere. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 1 month ago (6 children) Okay, but they still happen with orders of magnitude less frequency than bugs in AI code. Consider that the time between when rsync first adopted LLM-generated code and users en masse reporting rsync internal protocol errors during a backup was on the order of months. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) The author of that article admits that the sample size is not large enough to draw meaningful conclusions. But besides that, I believe LLM code generators can be a useful tool, provided you are willing to go over their output with a fine-tooth comb and assume it is broken until you have proven otherwise, because the hallucination problem is inherent to the technology and they're never going to completely solve it, and are willing to overlook the myriad ethical issues with all major LLMs in existence today. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago I froze my rsync package the day that was announced. fuck the dev :( permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 1 month ago (6 children) Okay, but they still happen with orders of magnitude less frequency than bugs in AI code. Consider that the time between when rsync first adopted LLM-generated code and users en masse reporting rsync internal protocol errors during a backup was on the order of months. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) The author of that article admits that the sample size is not large enough to draw meaningful conclusions. But besides that, I believe LLM code generators can be a useful tool, provided you are willing to go over their output with a fine-tooth comb and assume it is broken until you have proven otherwise, because the hallucination problem is inherent to the technology and they're never going to completely solve it, and are willing to overlook the myriad ethical issues with all major LLMs in existence today. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago I froze my rsync package the day that was announced. fuck the dev :( permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 1 month ago (6 children) Okay, but they still happen with orders of magnitude less frequency than bugs in AI code. Consider that the time between when rsync first adopted LLM-generated code and users en masse reporting rsync internal protocol errors during a backup was on the order of months. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) The author of that article admits that the sample size is not large enough to draw meaningful conclusions. But besides that, I believe LLM code generators can be a useful tool, provided you are willing to go over their output with a fine-tooth comb and assume it is broken until you have proven otherwise, because the hallucination problem is inherent to the technology and they're never going to completely solve it, and are willing to overlook the myriad ethical issues with all major LLMs in existence today. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago I froze my rsync package the day that was announced. fuck the dev :( permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) The author of that article admits that the sample size is not large enough to draw meaningful conclusions. But besides that, I believe LLM code generators can be a useful tool, provided you are willing to go over their output with a fine-tooth comb and assume it is broken until you have proven otherwise, because the hallucination problem is inherent to the technology and they're never going to completely solve it, and are willing to overlook the myriad ethical issues with all major LLMs in existence today. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) The author of that article admits that the sample size is not large enough to draw meaningful conclusions. But besides that, I believe LLM code generators can be a useful tool, provided you are willing to go over their output with a fine-tooth comb and assume it is broken until you have proven otherwise, because the hallucination problem is inherent to the technology and they're never going to completely solve it, and are willing to overlook the myriad ethical issues with all major LLMs in existence today. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child) I'd really like to see a source for the first guy's numbers, especially how he accounts for things like training and water usage at the power plant, and as for the second guy, Anthropic is not preserving shit. The Internet Archive preserves books. Anthropic scans them and doesn't publish the scans so that they can train an LLM that might or might not be able to regurgitate some fragments of that text, and publish that. That's preservation in the same way that painting a picture of you is keeping you alive forever. Also, neither of those address the effects on creatives' livelihoods or the mental health of LLM users. Chatbot psychosis is real. People who routinely use LLMs to do things provably become worse at doing them without them. Students use LLMs to make an end run around having to learn everything they need to know to be effective members of a society, like how to articulate their points, how not to fall for rhetorical traps, what history was really like, and between that and the disastrous effects of No Child Left Behind, teachers are quitting in droves and there's a literacy crisis. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago I froze my rsync package the day that was announced. fuck the dev :( permalink fedilink source parent