▲ 1263 ▼ socialism lesson (thelemmy.club) submitted 4 days ago by slothrop@lemmy.ca to c/murderedbywords@feddit.uk 169 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -30 points 4 days ago* (7 children) They also want to do that at gunpoint. Minor detail you forgot to mention. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 28 points 4 days ago (1 child) Capitalism is enforced at gunpoint. Can we condemn that, too? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -6 points 3 days ago (1 child) You mean like when you can't loot other people's shit? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) What? No, I meant like when people said they didn't want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I mean, that certainly wasn't nice, but unions are an accepted part of "capitalism" now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 3 days ago Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as "nice" is underselling it. Also, "accepted" is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common. permalink fedilink source parent [–] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 19 points 4 days ago Yeah, because no war has ever been fought to bring capitalism anywhere. Ever. Not even one little time. permalink fedilink source parent [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 days ago (1 child) They don't want that. They just understand that the capitalists will literally kill them and they have to be prepared for that. This is not speculation, it's historically accurate permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -10 points 3 days ago* (3 children) No, socialism doesn't work unless you force people into it. Socialism can theoretically be voluntary inside a capitalist system. No one forbids you to form a collective. Except no one joins such collectives except lazy rejects and people wanting free shit. There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Capitalists will only kill you if you're trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 days ago What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized permalink fedilink source parent [–] jtrek@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like "we want paid sick time", "we don't want to work more than 8 hours a day", and "we want to be paid in real money not company scrip" are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it's not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It's held in place by force. Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. Why is it their stuff? permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriormro@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you genuinely believe capitalism has not killed or caused the killing of numerous individuals? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -9 points 3 days ago (1 child) Strawman alert. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 0 points 3 days ago Coward alert. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 days ago* Overthrowing the current order at gunpoint is completely ethically justified, capitalism is fundamentally and irredeemably evil and anyone who doesn't see that is too fucking stupid to safely walk and chew at the same time permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 days ago Here is my gun, its written down you moron. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago (1 child) What in the actual fuck are you talking about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -8 points 3 days ago (1 child) Read other replies to my comment to find out. Mind the vote score, too. The vicious savages aren't hiding. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Crying about "viscious savages" because people took away your internet points just makes you sound like a pampered little bitch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) I couldn't care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 5 hours ago When capitalists do it, it's somehow not murder. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) Democratic socialists do not want to impose socialism on people through violent force. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 days ago (3 children) They also dont want socialism. They want reform just like centrists. Not one DSA candidate has called for the means of production to be in the hands of the workers. Not one has said we should get rid of capitalists. Not one has said we should get rid of for profit banks and insurance. They do talk about single payer healthcare but that is just a social program and not socialism. Its all reform unless we(the workers)seize the means of production and I havent heard one peep about that from the DSA. So, no, the DSA aren't socialists at all, they are at best reformists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (3 children) Many members of DSA would like to see a significant proliferation of worker owned co-ops. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 point 4 hours ago So coops in capitalism? Sounds like reform and we know reform doesnt work, we are living thru that right now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago Cooperatives aren't exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state. permalink fedilink source parent [–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 4 points 4 days ago I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we're in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they're legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses. permalink fedilink source parent [–] kestrel7_7@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago I'm not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA's rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that's how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0 permalink fedilink source parent [–] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 0 points 4 days ago (2 children) Oh, I see the issue. You're one of those tankies who equates authoritarianism with socialism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago "Authoritarianism" is not a form of society. All states are monopolies on violence, what matters most is which class in society controls it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago* One of those people who is tired of losing and isn't completely historically and politically illiterate permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jtrek@startrek.website 28 points 4 days ago (1 child) Capitalism is enforced at gunpoint. Can we condemn that, too? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -6 points 3 days ago (1 child) You mean like when you can't loot other people's shit? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) What? No, I meant like when people said they didn't want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I mean, that certainly wasn't nice, but unions are an accepted part of "capitalism" now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 3 days ago Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as "nice" is underselling it. Also, "accepted" is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -6 points 3 days ago (1 child) You mean like when you can't loot other people's shit? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) What? No, I meant like when people said they didn't want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I mean, that certainly wasn't nice, but unions are an accepted part of "capitalism" now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 3 days ago Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as "nice" is underselling it. Also, "accepted" is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jtrek@startrek.website 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) What? No, I meant like when people said they didn't want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I mean, that certainly wasn't nice, but unions are an accepted part of "capitalism" now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 3 days ago Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as "nice" is underselling it. Also, "accepted" is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I mean, that certainly wasn't nice, but unions are an accepted part of "capitalism" now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 3 days ago Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as "nice" is underselling it. Also, "accepted" is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 3 days ago Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as "nice" is underselling it. Also, "accepted" is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 19 points 4 days ago Yeah, because no war has ever been fought to bring capitalism anywhere. Ever. Not even one little time. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] frisbird@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 days ago (1 child) They don't want that. They just understand that the capitalists will literally kill them and they have to be prepared for that. This is not speculation, it's historically accurate permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -10 points 3 days ago* (3 children) No, socialism doesn't work unless you force people into it. Socialism can theoretically be voluntary inside a capitalist system. No one forbids you to form a collective. Except no one joins such collectives except lazy rejects and people wanting free shit. There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Capitalists will only kill you if you're trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 days ago What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized permalink fedilink source parent [–] jtrek@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like "we want paid sick time", "we don't want to work more than 8 hours a day", and "we want to be paid in real money not company scrip" are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it's not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It's held in place by force. Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. Why is it their stuff? permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriormro@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you genuinely believe capitalism has not killed or caused the killing of numerous individuals? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -9 points 3 days ago (1 child) Strawman alert. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 0 points 3 days ago Coward alert. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -10 points 3 days ago* (3 children) No, socialism doesn't work unless you force people into it. Socialism can theoretically be voluntary inside a capitalist system. No one forbids you to form a collective. Except no one joins such collectives except lazy rejects and people wanting free shit. There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Capitalists will only kill you if you're trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 days ago What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized permalink fedilink source parent [–] jtrek@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like "we want paid sick time", "we don't want to work more than 8 hours a day", and "we want to be paid in real money not company scrip" are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it's not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It's held in place by force. Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. Why is it their stuff? permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriormro@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you genuinely believe capitalism has not killed or caused the killing of numerous individuals? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -9 points 3 days ago (1 child) Strawman alert. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 0 points 3 days ago Coward alert. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] frisbird@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 days ago What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jtrek@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart. Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like "we want paid sick time", "we don't want to work more than 8 hours a day", and "we want to be paid in real money not company scrip" are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it's not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It's held in place by force. Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable. Why is it their stuff? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mriormro@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you genuinely believe capitalism has not killed or caused the killing of numerous individuals? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -9 points 3 days ago (1 child) Strawman alert. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 0 points 3 days ago Coward alert. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -9 points 3 days ago (1 child) Strawman alert. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 0 points 3 days ago Coward alert. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 days ago* Overthrowing the current order at gunpoint is completely ethically justified, capitalism is fundamentally and irredeemably evil and anyone who doesn't see that is too fucking stupid to safely walk and chew at the same time permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 days ago Here is my gun, its written down you moron. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edible_funk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago (1 child) What in the actual fuck are you talking about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -8 points 3 days ago (1 child) Read other replies to my comment to find out. Mind the vote score, too. The vicious savages aren't hiding. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Crying about "viscious savages" because people took away your internet points just makes you sound like a pampered little bitch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) I couldn't care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 5 hours ago When capitalists do it, it's somehow not murder. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works -8 points 3 days ago (1 child) Read other replies to my comment to find out. Mind the vote score, too. The vicious savages aren't hiding. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Crying about "viscious savages" because people took away your internet points just makes you sound like a pampered little bitch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) I couldn't care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 5 hours ago When capitalists do it, it's somehow not murder. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dreamkeeper@literature.cafe 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Crying about "viscious savages" because people took away your internet points just makes you sound like a pampered little bitch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) I couldn't care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 5 hours ago When capitalists do it, it's somehow not murder. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) I couldn't care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 5 hours ago When capitalists do it, it's somehow not murder. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 5 hours ago When capitalists do it, it's somehow not murder. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) Democratic socialists do not want to impose socialism on people through violent force. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 days ago (3 children) They also dont want socialism. They want reform just like centrists. Not one DSA candidate has called for the means of production to be in the hands of the workers. Not one has said we should get rid of capitalists. Not one has said we should get rid of for profit banks and insurance. They do talk about single payer healthcare but that is just a social program and not socialism. Its all reform unless we(the workers)seize the means of production and I havent heard one peep about that from the DSA. So, no, the DSA aren't socialists at all, they are at best reformists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (3 children) Many members of DSA would like to see a significant proliferation of worker owned co-ops. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 point 4 hours ago So coops in capitalism? Sounds like reform and we know reform doesnt work, we are living thru that right now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago Cooperatives aren't exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state. permalink fedilink source parent [–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 4 points 4 days ago I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we're in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they're legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses. permalink fedilink source parent [–] kestrel7_7@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago I'm not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA's rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that's how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0 permalink fedilink source parent [–] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 0 points 4 days ago (2 children) Oh, I see the issue. You're one of those tankies who equates authoritarianism with socialism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago "Authoritarianism" is not a form of society. All states are monopolies on violence, what matters most is which class in society controls it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago* One of those people who is tired of losing and isn't completely historically and politically illiterate permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 days ago (3 children) They also dont want socialism. They want reform just like centrists. Not one DSA candidate has called for the means of production to be in the hands of the workers. Not one has said we should get rid of capitalists. Not one has said we should get rid of for profit banks and insurance. They do talk about single payer healthcare but that is just a social program and not socialism. Its all reform unless we(the workers)seize the means of production and I havent heard one peep about that from the DSA. So, no, the DSA aren't socialists at all, they are at best reformists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (3 children) Many members of DSA would like to see a significant proliferation of worker owned co-ops. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 point 4 hours ago So coops in capitalism? Sounds like reform and we know reform doesnt work, we are living thru that right now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago Cooperatives aren't exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state. permalink fedilink source parent [–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 4 points 4 days ago I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we're in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they're legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses. permalink fedilink source parent [–] kestrel7_7@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago I'm not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA's rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that's how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0 permalink fedilink source parent [–] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 0 points 4 days ago (2 children) Oh, I see the issue. You're one of those tankies who equates authoritarianism with socialism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago "Authoritarianism" is not a form of society. All states are monopolies on violence, what matters most is which class in society controls it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago* One of those people who is tired of losing and isn't completely historically and politically illiterate permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (3 children) Many members of DSA would like to see a significant proliferation of worker owned co-ops. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 point 4 hours ago So coops in capitalism? Sounds like reform and we know reform doesnt work, we are living thru that right now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago Cooperatives aren't exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state. permalink fedilink source parent [–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 4 points 4 days ago I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we're in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they're legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 point 4 hours ago So coops in capitalism? Sounds like reform and we know reform doesnt work, we are living thru that right now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago Cooperatives aren't exactly socialist, though. This is a confusion of socialism that is ultimately reductive, removing firms from their place in society, both with respect to the broader economy and the state. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 4 points 4 days ago I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we're in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they're legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kestrel7_7@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago I'm not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA's rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that's how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 0 points 4 days ago (2 children) Oh, I see the issue. You're one of those tankies who equates authoritarianism with socialism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago "Authoritarianism" is not a form of society. All states are monopolies on violence, what matters most is which class in society controls it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago* One of those people who is tired of losing and isn't completely historically and politically illiterate permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago "Authoritarianism" is not a form of society. All states are monopolies on violence, what matters most is which class in society controls it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago* One of those people who is tired of losing and isn't completely historically and politically illiterate permalink fedilink source parent