▲ 631 ▼ California passes bill to make plug-in solar systems easier and cheaper to install (www.techspot.com) submitted 2 days ago by VetOfTheSeas@discuss.online to c/upliftingnews@lemmy.world 63 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago (6 children) Regardless, you can run it at night when the sun isn't out. If you have enough back up battery storage, slow and steady is fine. From what I’ve read, wind doesn’t really scale down to home use the way solar does. Where did you read that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* Trees and rolling landscapes block a LOT of wind. You need to be someplace flat and sparse to have any luck. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago (1 child) The main issue is the small size tends to increase the required wind speed required to initially overcome friction, and those higher windspeeds are rarely sustained at ground level. Large turbines work efficiently because they are up above the turbulence caused by houses, trees, buildings, etc. I don't save links to everything I ever read, so you'll have to search it up if you're curious for more details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago* Really depends on where you live. If you're in suburbs they're completely fucking useless. If you're in the country with over a mile of relatively flat fields upwind it'll work, especially if you already have an old antenna tower or can put one up. Also, the larger commercial tirbines are trying to generate commercial levels of power, not residential. And for a given wind speed the power generation scales by blade length, and a lot of that height is also needed as clearance for the blades permalink fedilink source parent [–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 days ago (1 child) This guy tested a $100 solar panel and windmill and found the solar panel was much, much better. https://youtu.be/iHulKsD35Hc This guy gets into the math behind the Tesup Atlas wind turbine. Basically the real output people are getting could be matched by 200-400watts of solar. https://youtu.be/6ixUmlN-cYc The 2 biggest problems with scaling down turbines. Hard 60% efficiency limit called the Betz Limit Wear and tear on smaller parts is the same as bigger parts but with lower output efficiency. I guess a 3rd is that the surface area to volume ratio is probably what makes large turbines practical in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 days ago (1 child) Less efficient doesn't mean it's useless, especially at night. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) It does if the wind isn't blowing fast enough to move the turbine. They cover that in the 2nd video. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -7 points 2 days ago Get a different turbine? permalink fedilink source parent [–] VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 10 points 2 days ago Where did you read that? https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/09/urban-windmills-harm-the-environment Physics are quite simply not on the side of small-scale wind power. Which is fine, it doesn't have to - solar works really well for small-scale applications. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Serinus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) I've looked into it for exactly this reason. 1 kW at night would go a long, long way for me. It doesn't work. If you're lucky, a small turbine might be able to charge your phone. Maybe. Intermittently. The turbines scale exponentially with blade size, not linearly. And none of it works well at suburb/city height. You need this things 100ft in the air with large blades. At that point you might as well get a real one and power your neighborhood. Those things really don't scale down effectively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* Here is a handy guide: https://ecowised.com/best-home-wind-turbines-for-residential-use-top-models-costs-what-to-look-for/ Edit: Here's one from Europe: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/wind-turbines/ permalink fedilink source parent [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (2 children) Wind is too variable. Sun comes up every day, and getting laminar wind is difficult in suburban areas. Expensive and turbines wear and get iced in winter. They can work in rural settings which is why they have been using turbines on farms for over 200 years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 days ago Sun comes up every day Sure, technically Expensive and turbines wear and get iced in winter Where I come from, solar energy doesn't work in the winter, but wind (large scale) usually does. Output difference of a solar system between winter lowest vs summer highest is ~30x, as we get an average of around 20 hours of sunshine in the entire month of December and it's not exactly at a great angle for those few hours. Wind would be pretty much the only way one could really stop relying on fossil based energy here. Kinda sucks if they're not a real option. permalink fedilink source parent [–] zabadoh@ani.social 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) Depends on geography and climate. Some places in my area are 24/7 windtunnels. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 child) But you need laminar wind. It suburban areas there is too much turbulence from objects. Im not going to make a bunch of links. Just search why home wind sucks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago It suburban areas What the hell do you think "It depends on geography" means? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* Trees and rolling landscapes block a LOT of wind. You need to be someplace flat and sparse to have any luck. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago (1 child) The main issue is the small size tends to increase the required wind speed required to initially overcome friction, and those higher windspeeds are rarely sustained at ground level. Large turbines work efficiently because they are up above the turbulence caused by houses, trees, buildings, etc. I don't save links to everything I ever read, so you'll have to search it up if you're curious for more details. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago* Really depends on where you live. If you're in suburbs they're completely fucking useless. If you're in the country with over a mile of relatively flat fields upwind it'll work, especially if you already have an old antenna tower or can put one up. Also, the larger commercial tirbines are trying to generate commercial levels of power, not residential. And for a given wind speed the power generation scales by blade length, and a lot of that height is also needed as clearance for the blades permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago* Really depends on where you live. If you're in suburbs they're completely fucking useless. If you're in the country with over a mile of relatively flat fields upwind it'll work, especially if you already have an old antenna tower or can put one up. Also, the larger commercial tirbines are trying to generate commercial levels of power, not residential. And for a given wind speed the power generation scales by blade length, and a lot of that height is also needed as clearance for the blades permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 days ago (1 child) This guy tested a $100 solar panel and windmill and found the solar panel was much, much better. https://youtu.be/iHulKsD35Hc This guy gets into the math behind the Tesup Atlas wind turbine. Basically the real output people are getting could be matched by 200-400watts of solar. https://youtu.be/6ixUmlN-cYc The 2 biggest problems with scaling down turbines. Hard 60% efficiency limit called the Betz Limit Wear and tear on smaller parts is the same as bigger parts but with lower output efficiency. I guess a 3rd is that the surface area to volume ratio is probably what makes large turbines practical in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 days ago (1 child) Less efficient doesn't mean it's useless, especially at night. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) It does if the wind isn't blowing fast enough to move the turbine. They cover that in the 2nd video. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -7 points 2 days ago Get a different turbine? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 days ago (1 child) Less efficient doesn't mean it's useless, especially at night. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) It does if the wind isn't blowing fast enough to move the turbine. They cover that in the 2nd video. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -7 points 2 days ago Get a different turbine? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) It does if the wind isn't blowing fast enough to move the turbine. They cover that in the 2nd video. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -7 points 2 days ago Get a different turbine? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -7 points 2 days ago Get a different turbine? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 10 points 2 days ago Where did you read that? https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/09/urban-windmills-harm-the-environment Physics are quite simply not on the side of small-scale wind power. Which is fine, it doesn't have to - solar works really well for small-scale applications. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) I've looked into it for exactly this reason. 1 kW at night would go a long, long way for me. It doesn't work. If you're lucky, a small turbine might be able to charge your phone. Maybe. Intermittently. The turbines scale exponentially with blade size, not linearly. And none of it works well at suburb/city height. You need this things 100ft in the air with large blades. At that point you might as well get a real one and power your neighborhood. Those things really don't scale down effectively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* Here is a handy guide: https://ecowised.com/best-home-wind-turbines-for-residential-use-top-models-costs-what-to-look-for/ Edit: Here's one from Europe: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/wind-turbines/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* Here is a handy guide: https://ecowised.com/best-home-wind-turbines-for-residential-use-top-models-costs-what-to-look-for/ Edit: Here's one from Europe: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/wind-turbines/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (2 children) Wind is too variable. Sun comes up every day, and getting laminar wind is difficult in suburban areas. Expensive and turbines wear and get iced in winter. They can work in rural settings which is why they have been using turbines on farms for over 200 years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 days ago Sun comes up every day Sure, technically Expensive and turbines wear and get iced in winter Where I come from, solar energy doesn't work in the winter, but wind (large scale) usually does. Output difference of a solar system between winter lowest vs summer highest is ~30x, as we get an average of around 20 hours of sunshine in the entire month of December and it's not exactly at a great angle for those few hours. Wind would be pretty much the only way one could really stop relying on fossil based energy here. Kinda sucks if they're not a real option. permalink fedilink source parent [–] zabadoh@ani.social 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) Depends on geography and climate. Some places in my area are 24/7 windtunnels. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 child) But you need laminar wind. It suburban areas there is too much turbulence from objects. Im not going to make a bunch of links. Just search why home wind sucks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago It suburban areas What the hell do you think "It depends on geography" means? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 days ago Sun comes up every day Sure, technically Expensive and turbines wear and get iced in winter Where I come from, solar energy doesn't work in the winter, but wind (large scale) usually does. Output difference of a solar system between winter lowest vs summer highest is ~30x, as we get an average of around 20 hours of sunshine in the entire month of December and it's not exactly at a great angle for those few hours. Wind would be pretty much the only way one could really stop relying on fossil based energy here. Kinda sucks if they're not a real option. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] zabadoh@ani.social 6 points 2 days ago (1 child) Depends on geography and climate. Some places in my area are 24/7 windtunnels. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 child) But you need laminar wind. It suburban areas there is too much turbulence from objects. Im not going to make a bunch of links. Just search why home wind sucks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago It suburban areas What the hell do you think "It depends on geography" means? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 child) But you need laminar wind. It suburban areas there is too much turbulence from objects. Im not going to make a bunch of links. Just search why home wind sucks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago It suburban areas What the hell do you think "It depends on geography" means? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago It suburban areas What the hell do you think "It depends on geography" means? permalink fedilink source parent